Sencheezy

Oh man, this looks exciting

I spoke with John over at AE, and here is what he had to say. I believe this is the driver that I will be using. Great customer service and very informative company. Hello, The best 12" driver to get up to the 1KHz range is going to be the TD12M. It is also the most efficient. The only drawback is that it has only 6mm Xmax vs 14mm Xmax of our other drivers. If you are going down to only 40hz though for an SQ system you should be fine with the Xmax. This gives 105dB at 40hz at 1m modelled. Your vehicle transfer function should be similar to my old bravada, GMC jimmy, or 4 runner I have measured. All are getting in the range of 20dB cabin gain at 40hz. That puts you in the 125dB range. If you feel you need more, the TD12X is the next option with 14mm Xmax but it has a foam surround instead of the cloth so the upper end is not as smooth. http://www.aespeakers.com/pics/measurements/vehicle_TF/2002_olds_bravada_transfer_function.PNG http://www.aespeakers.com/pics/measurements/vehicle_TF/2001_GMC_Jimmy_transfer_function.PNG http://www.aespeakers.com/pics/measurements/vehicle_TF/2002_4_runner_mic_headrest_positioning.PNG The TD12M extends up to about 5KHz quite cleanly. On a 12" driver at 1KHz you are good to about 90 degree dispersion, +/-45 degrees. As long as you can get both sides aimed within that window you should be pretty good. https://sites.google.com/site/drivervault/driver-measurements/tang-band-75-1558se/ae-speakers-td12m Here are the dimensions of the TD12M. The apollo option adds 1/2" to the total depth. Because these are solid pole with phase plug you don't need to worry about any space behind the motor. http://www.aespeakers.com/pdfs/TD12-dimensional.pdf Best Regards, John

Welding cable is international standard. Awg is a standard. They "should" all be the same with the difference being in price, and the jacket

woot woot! @team_iak

Yoga

You could just buy the CDs from Bassmechanic and such.

Pretty much what shizzon said. A few noticeable ones. Slamology, slamfest, SBN, world finals, and scrapin the coast.

See, my whole thinking, at least from what I've read mostly on this forum and others. Is that you want the sound to come from a single source. So if I was running 3-way system, I would only have 3 pairs of drivers, and the same for a 2way system, I would only have two pairs of drivers.

Moderately quiet. And yes, a processor will be put in place. This thread was created with the driver only in mind. Keeping it at that level will be easy. As reference, a shot in the dark, I believe it would be for me equivalent to 24/40 volume. So obviously I will need to have the flexibility of turning it down, the easy part, for competition. While still able to crank it at local car meets and for demo purposes.

Whoa, hey man! I hope all is well sir. A big reason for me having the idea of a single large driver, was for output reasons. Being able to keep up with the 110db sensitive mini horns. Also, I was told that multiple drivers will result in poor imaging/staging? Any input in that regards?

Feb 23

Yes, I DO actually want to compete this season in SQ for the MECA organization. They do also out a lot of emphasis on the installation as noted by neo. The thing is, I'm not trying to win a world tittle, just earn a respectable score in their 0-100 scale, and there is also RTA.

1

Allow me to pick up my jaw off the floor and hide my woody.

Wow crazy craftsmanship!

That will be the following agenda.

ES ES AY

I love you J

l

Jacob is gone for CES, may take a while for a proper response.

keep warm

Cablguy184, on 05 Jan 2014 - 22:04, said: Cablguy184, on 05 Jan 2014 - 22:04, said: As mentioned previously, it's about 2 cubes gross. If you build an enclosure in each door ... Will you still be able to roll your windows up and down ?? I know in my truck (I know, each vehicle is different ... just asking) that the window mechanism goes way down in that area where the drivers are located ... Reason I'm tuned into this thread is because I plan to change some things in my doors too ... Just not going to say what yet cause I'm not so sure it's going to happen ... Yes, the dimensions mentioned in the first post were rough dimensions, but were not "inside" the door to interfere with the control arm. Where the driver will be located, far front side, they will be extended outward to try and avoid any inner workings. ///M5, on 05 Jan 2014 - 22:24, said: I should have read ahead tongue.png That could house a pair of 10's. Could passively cross one to only be midbass and use the other as a midbass/midrange and benefit from cone area and response. You may be better off with 8's though in that alignment. 10's will dig deeper and blend with your subs more easily, but the upper midrange won't be as nice. Are your horns already installed? If so, do some critical listening to determine really how low you can acceptably have them play. Thanks for the input, yes, the horns are already installed as seen in the pictures posted in the beginning. Currently, they are crossed at ~1100. I don't really feel comfortable lowering them just yet, as I feel I do not have the necessary processing at the moment. The specs given by Eric Stevens suggest to cross them at 800, which is safe, and then 600 if utilizing a 24/48db slope. I've had them installed for little over 6 months or so. My initial installation was not to go the SQ route. But as I began listening to them, I realzied how much I'm attracted to the actually sound quality of my material. nadcicle, on 05 Jan 2014 - 23:09, said: I agree with m5 on listening how low you can currently go. My use full bodied start farting right at 800 at too high of volume. For our type of listening I chose to cross higher at 1k so I could feed them more power without the fear of replacing diaphragms. I will say they blended a lot better at low volume though. It's just that we are determined to keep up with a loud substage and most of these Sq guys don't have that issue. For all intents and purposes they build the exact opposite the way we do by sounding good then blending in. We try and get loud then sound good is becoming our ladder. As mentioned before, during initial testing, I will be buying a bulk load, maybe 6 or so diaphragms as they are farely cheap, once I have the settings dialed in, I will then replace the stock diaphragms with titanium ones he provides IIRC. ///M5, on 05 Jan 2014 - 23:18, said: I've played with a lot of horns and none of them have liked being run that low...but where you should pick is what YOUR ears like. The lower they play the more flexibility you have, but don't exaggerate as it'll bite you later. Ok sounds good. armykyle1, on 05 Jan 2014 - 23:37, said: Have you considered going three way? Lots of mid bass can be had from Anarchy mids. I do not want to go 3 way, at least not at this point of my installation. And yes, I've taken a look at the Anarchy, but again, I was wanting to go with a single, large driver to be installed, and blend well my my horns. I know this limits me a lot, just really didn't realize how much haha. ///M5, on 05 Jan 2014 - 23:38, said: armykyle1, on 05 Jan 2014 - 23:37, said: Have you considered going three way? Lots of mid bass can be had from Anarchy mids. He doesn't want although that would make it WAY easier. Tons of 12's that will have great midbass if it doesn't have to extend. Yeah, I'm noticing that is what you guys are mentioning, I would be fine if I was to simply go from 40hz to about 300hz, but the problem or challenge I'm facing is finding one that reaches up to about 600hz. Seems my only liably option at the moment is PA, which I'm not too fond about, but if I can port them, and obtain that lower end extension by doing so, I may have found an solution for so. You mentioned that going with high xmax is actually bad for my particular installation and goals correct? Most of the drivers I'm looking at now, the PA's, have an xmax of about 7-9mm, is that more sensible? The other midbass drivers, (non-PA), seem to excel in the lower extension, but then begins to weaken beyond 250hz, at least according to manufacture recommendation and listed FR Graphs. armykyle1, on 06 Jan 2014 - 00:17, said: Going three way gives you a lot more options. You can dial in the exact sound you want. Less compromises. My next stage will be active 3way. A nice mid range driver will go a long way. I'm not a big fan mid range, so I can get away with less than most because it's what I like. You have the perfect amp to go three way active cheezy. haha, Yeah I know I do, it's just something I don't feel comfortable with at this particular moment. Another goal of mine is to have the most output I can achieve with the least amount of speakers. chicagofan, on 06 Jan 2014 - 01:23, said: So what do you have paired with the horns right now? Do you still plan to pick up that Clarion dbl din that is supposed to be active capable? It would seem that maybe Cableguy & Teric's suggestion of taming the horns 1st may help narrow your options. Right now, they are paired with a pair of Seas Prestige 7" midrange drivers. Which currently, I don't have setup properly. Right now I have they setup to play better in the higher range vs playing the lower end. Doing so, an local SQ person informed me that he can actually here my door speakers take sound away from my horns, which I don't want. I actually do still plan on picking up that Clarion, as well as an external processor. I currently have a pair of AudioControl CDQ 3octave crossovers. But I'm not sure If I'll be using them. And yes, I'm still learning of what the horns are tolerating at the moment and what sounds good. I've been content thus far with crossing them over at 1100 with the power being applied, so I have really done much testing as, again, I have limited processing power at the moment. j-roadtatts, on 06 Jan 2014 - 01:39, said: 12 midbassas are sickly. Just ask me. That being said the compromise for me is a weak midrange which would be even worse with horns. Plus hold a 12 up to your door you will quickly realize the hurdle to mount that bitch. I was happier with the mounting and sound of the ten but got greedy when they accidentally sent a 12 replacement. From the front of my baffle to the glass at the closest point while rolling down is only 5.5". If I already had horns mounted I would be looking a pro driver as midrange and take the compromise of less midbass as the ref levels I am guessing you listen at are pretty high. IIRC off axis suffers the larger the cone diameter as the two correlate. (Beaming) Once you pick a driver model it for the low end response in your planned alignment. Then do the math Imp put up to see where the driver will roll off on the top due to inductance of the drivers coil. IIRC the coil acts like a crossover. Remember to convert mh to h for the formula. I could go on as I have spent much time on the subject. So the last thing I will add is the smaller cone has less moving mass which I think is good in your case. I think you said it best for me: "If I already had horns mounted I would be looking a pro driver as midrange and take the compromise of less midbass" This is something that I'm learning to accept, and deal with. And I think I'm ok with that. And would actually like to move forward in this regard as it's becoming more difficult to find an Mid-Bass Driver that can play as high as I will need them too. ///M5, on 06 Jan 2014 - 09:17, said: J also has the advantage of 12's that will actually reach up to 1kHz rather nicely ON AXIS. Obviously a compromise as is everything audio in a car, but that is where you are right now. Simple will require more of a compromise so it all depends on how far you want to go. Right right, I think the compromise for me will be the loss of Lower End Extension. All of the PAs that I have taken a look at thus far pick up really quickly at 70hz, but there is an extremely steep slope of anything below that, referencing their published FR Graphs. So I believe I will be able to aid this by porting them, since I also have the addaqute space for doing so, this may benefit me. If I was to find a more dedicated Mid-Bass driver, than I will have to compromise the higher end (300hz-~800hz). IF that was the case, then I would try to use the available processing to bridge that gap.

As mentioned previously, it's about 2 cubes gross.

You seen my truck get really loud and keep it's stage and image, and it has no problems putting a 140 on the termlab ... All I'm saying is time alignment alone will GREATLY improve on what you have now ... even when cranked up !!! Yeah, your truck definately gets loud. Just looking for a little bit more output Again, after driver selection has been made, then I will tackle the T/A and such.