Bryan G

I was right about something, finally. That's why I bought the Dual brand for the sub and sub amp, I figured that would be the easiest part to reproduce, these cheap ones would take care if the low end for a while. I do understand what you're saying. There was a company in Grand Rapids Mi. that made super high quality speakers, not just the cabinets but every part from scratch. They had a display with a pair of speakers that were loud, clear and full range. This was like 30 years ago so I can't remember the size but I think they were around 6". So these little 6" speakers, in some rather small cabinets was filling the whole showroom, you'd figure the amp had to be putting out some good power, but it wasn't. They had a meter on it showing how all that sound was coming from only 1 watt of power. They were showing the same thing you're saying, with the proper acoustics, a little goes a long ways. So how do I figure out what I want to do?

For the subs, I want them to be able to be able to play down to 20hz., the amp will, but the speakers specs are 28hz - 125hz. I was looking at these Pioneer TS-W304R or these Pioneer TS-W310S4, but that's way down the road. Thank you for the reply. After learning how little I knew of car audio, I was bummed out thinking I bought all the wrong stuff, now that I know it's just a matter of proper mounting and fixing the door, I feel much better. I have 3 more of those sub boxes, Best Buy was getting rid of them for $10, I think I can get $20 a piece, so there is some of the money I need. I'm putting the 6x9's up on Craigslist for $125 to start. I just bought 6x9 boxes from Crutchfield for $25, they go for 40, they're unopened so I think I can get $40 (others sell for $50 on craigs) and I have a power tool I'm selling for $80. I get to use all this money for my car, so I don't need to sell the EQ. The reason I want the EQ is because the built in parametric is hard to get to, I want to be able to make changes without having to hit the button, scroll to the setting, hit the button again, scroll the the one I want (bass, mid or high) then hit the button again and adjust it, then hit the back button like 4 times to get back to the main interface, hell, but the time I get it, the song's half over. The EQ would be quick, just turn the appropriate knob, done. So, unless you think the EQ is junk, I would like to keep it.

Okay, time to work with what I have and figure out what I need. I didn't post my system before because I just didn't want to hear I need to replace everything. Head unit: Kenwood KDC-X397 Fronet/rear amp: Kenwood KAC-8405 Front speakers: Infinity Reference 6030cs EQ: Clarion EQS746 Rear speakers: Kicker 40CSS694 The sub and sub amp are Dual. I know it's low quality and will be replaced, but not until I get the front fixed. The sub amp is 20-20k hz so it's okay, but I just found that the speakers only go as low as 30hz. For now I'm happy with the bass, I can get by. The sub box is a Fierce Audio - 12" Dual Sealed Flat Pack Subwoofer Enclosure FPS212.1 and I lined the inside with fiberglass insulation, I think I used 6". So, first question is the one I'm afraid to ask, are my fronts good enough? I was thinking that the 6x9's would sound nice up from, but I wonder, doesn't the oval shape screw the sound waves up? Also, if the fronts I have are good enough, I will just sell the 6x9's. Like Alton said, I need to make an adapter to get the fronts flush with the door panel. One of my customers works with wood and said he can build me something if I just give him the specs. Also, I will connect my EQ to the fronts so I can get those missing areas. I'm sick of the time it takes to use the settings in the HU, having to go through the menu sucks, with the EQ there is no menu, just turn the knob.... Mass Loaded Vinyl is expensive, I will eventually line the door, at least as much as I can reach, when I can afford it, but is there any cheap temporary solution? Any other comments/advice would be appreciated.

I looked and searched but couldn't find any information on this. I would like to add an avatar but when I try it says member_profile_disabled. Is there a minimum number of posts before it's active, or is this feature permanently disabled?

Thank you for all the greetings. Alton and a few others convinced me, I'm dumping the rears. The thread here says it all

I was into high end audio all my life. Home system is a Nikko Alpha power amp, 480 watts if my memory is right. Nikko betta pre-amp. Can't remember the eq.. Ohm c3 speakers, never heard anything better. For play, a teachnics (can't spell that) cassette player with dbx, a teac 8 head reel to reel (had the large reels, can't remember the size) and a turn table I can't remember. In the care, 78 z28, a Kenwood head unit, 2 linear amps, 8" subs mounted in the rear with some ohm component (6” and 2”) and nothing in front L Moved that to several cars over the years then when I turned 40, 2002, I moved to Hawaii and left all this with a friend. Now, I’m 51, back in the mainland, and I just couldn’t live without music. I still have most of the home system, but can’t use it, I’m in an apartment with wood floors, it would sound great, but I would be kicked out so quick so I build a new car system: Kenwood head unit with a Clarion eq (just using it for the rear speakers), a 4 channel kenwood amp for front and the rear (crossed over at 30hz+), then a cheap Dual amp for the subs (crossed over at 30hz-). I have infinity components in the front, installed the tweeters in the sail panel (I think it's called that) and 6" in the door. Then in the back I have Kicker components, the 6x9's in the deck and the tweeters mounted above the deck. A pair of Dual 12"s in a non-ported sub box, that has a divider. I skimped on the subs to save money, but it puts out down to 15hz crossed over at 30hz. I'm into quality music, played on quality equipment and I hope this forum will be a great place for advice and tips.

I've had the fader all the way to the front since yesterday and yes, I do notice. I can tell when I add the rear that it doesn't sound as full, it surrounds me more, but I do notice the flatness at times, I guess that's the way to put it, well I can't really explain, maybe the word clear, it sounds clearer, and I noticed that the sound does get all around me, until I turn my head to the left or right, then it all drops out, like when I'm making a lane change, I look over my shoulder and the sound is gone, ah, after learning the science of it, I can't argue anymore, rears kill sound.

since you haven't mentioned deadening the doors, i suggest you start there. correctly installing a pair of speakers should be the first priority. This is really good stuff, thanks. Something that has bothered me is that I couldn't get the proper adapters for the door speakers, so they are mounted right to the door then there is a 3 to 4 inch gap before the door panel, I know this is killing sound. I want to get something to make the speakers stand off the door and go past the panel, then cut the door panel so the sound doesn't go through the cheap grill on the door. I just don't know where to get this adapter. next, I need to learn how to deaden the door. Last, here is where I need an opinion.I was thinking of using my 4 channel amp just on the front. I was thinking of removing he crossover that came with speakers, then hook the tweeters to the front channel and the woofers to he rear, then I can cross over the 6 1/2" speakers with the active crossover in the amp and just buy an active crossover for the tweeters on the front channel. Sound right?

http://www.bcae1.com/passxovr.htm http://www.bcae1.com/elecxovr.htm I suggest reading both links. I think I knew that a long time ago, it all sounded familiar, thank you for that, I think I need to buy a crossover for my fronts. I looked up my kenwood amp for my fronts and it has an active crossover, but the speakers have a passive. I'm assuming I still need the crossover on the speakers, to separate the tweeter from the woofer even if it's crossed over at the amp, because the amp I'm setting to 80hz, but that's still to low for the tweeters?

Thank you, that did help. So let me see if I got this straight. If I put all the speakers in one spot, they would help, but if I separate them, then I'll get this canceling effect? But then this comes to mind. Does it actually cancel the frequency or is it that it just doesn't enhance it? I meant, if the same frequency comes out of the front and back, it will be no louder than just the front, but it won't be any quieter either? I think I'm getting it. I was thinking that if the back plays something the front can't, it will be fuller, but, why would I want just that freq coming from the back, then it goes to say, make sure the front plays it all...hmmm... then there is no reason for back speakers.

That doesn't say much, most people are idiots. Look at the proliferation of Bose and Apple products. Yay! I just spent a lot for shitty sound!!Even more confusing to me for someone who used to run a sound board. I did the same and have done a ton of recording. I LOVE studio monitors for mixing and of course having rears in your car is about the absolute opposite of that. All money spent and ego aside, when something can be improved it is worth embracing. If your ear is like you say then you should have no problem proving it out. You should also have no problem listening to the 6x9's on the market to realize that they are so lackluster that they are basically pointless anyways. You've got enough channels and an ear, so use those channels to run your fronts active. Will really open up what you can do. No ego, it's the money. I have a question, what do you mean by "run them active"? Also, I spent a lot on the 6x9's but I'm not happy with the sound, that's why I bought the eq, I was hoping I could fix it, but I guess you're saying that wont help. Like I just said in my last post, my ears are good, above average, but I have a lot to learn about sound equipment/shaping. I am listening to everyone. I have a feeling if I raise the front crossover from 50+ to somewhere around 70+ I'll be able to turn them up louder, then raise the top limit of the subs crossover to the same to fill in the rest... Well, that might make huge difference. Ever since I've been reading all these posts, I've been trying my car with just the fronts (using the fader) and it does sound full, I will have to admit I can't tell there are no rear speakers, until I bring them into the scene, but I don't bring them up enough to be able to tell there on, just to where is sounds fuller, but I'm debating, yea, it sound fuller, but does it sound better? I'm getting to think I should see what I could sell those rear speakers for. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, it's more like debating as I'm trying to find what's best. I just don't know if the front speakers I bought are good enough but I can't afford to buy new. I'll say this again, I wish I would have found this forum before I bought my system.

okay, I'm always willing to learn, I'm a little lost by what you said. when I listen, I hear sounds in all places around me. If the left channel is the same in the front as in the rear, how could that screw up the stereo effect? Then, you say adding more speakers would damage the frequency response, then why do most bookshelf speakers come with more than one speaker? Different speakers have different frequency ranges, I would think adding more speakers would add more frequencies. Same thing in a concert, they have many speakers. Could you explain how more speakers would damage the freq response. Also, I didn't understand what you meant by band passed left minus right, you said it will add ambiance and spaciousness and I'm doing that, so did I do it right? you can't tell attitude in typing, so I need to say, I'm not being a smartaz, I really want to know what you have to say. I know sound, that is to say my ears are sensitive, but I know more than the average person on audio equipment, but that don't mean a thing, most people don't know squat, I have a lot to learn and that's why I'm here. Also, if you or someone could, I would like to know more about the processor you mention. If you or whoever can help don't have time for all this, links to follow of reliable sources that would be good too.

yes, there are locations for the rear speakers, but they put them right on top of each other, so close there is no separation.

Is this factory setup? No, I installed component speakers with crossovers in the front, installed the tweeters in the sail panel and 6"s where the door speakers were. Then put components with crossovers in the rear. This is why I'm not unplugging them, I put too much money in the new speakers. I have a pair of 12' subs in a non-ported box. 3 amps, 200 watts for the front, 200 watts for the rear and 400 watts for the subs. A Kenwood excelon series head unit and I just bought a Clarion EQ but haven't installed it yet. I see a lot of people disagree with using rear speakers, but I've been doing this a long time and I know sound. Back in my younger days I was in demand by many local bands to run their boards when they played because i can tell what frequencies are lacking and what freqs have too much. If anyone were to the listen to the last system I had, they would understand, the sound enveloped you. I've been into high end audio since 1984. I've had plenty of time to learn, experiment and discuss with others how sound works. The only reason I asked this question is because knowing sound, I am pretty sure the 6x9 boxes are too small for the speakers to properly work, I was hoping to hear from someone else that might have used these boxes

Thank you for your response. I've heard that from a few people. Sorry but I disagree, if you do it right, the rear can help make the system better. My Front is complete,that's why I'm working on the back. I blew out my back speakers last year and had to drive 6 hours home from Michigan and it sounded good, I was surprised, just the fronts and subs. But, If the back matches the front, it's like wearing headphones. When I fade it to the front only, the sound is all in front of me, but if I use the fade and start adding a little rear, there is a point where the music is right where I am, then I'm surrounded in it. Back in the day when I had a 76 Buick regal I had a great system and the sound was perfect, at least in the front seat, sounded like crap in the back but I didn't care. When you would sit in the front seat the sound was all around me just like putting head phones on. I'm trying to get that sound again

After reading some of the other systems, mine seems like a toy, but it does 15hz to 20khz and fills the car nicely, it's all I could afford, with 2 kids and wife to support.

Thanks

mp3car.com Their forum was not related to my needs. I'm an audiophile from the old school.