Impious

How thorough is your knowledge of designing subwoofers? It's far more than simply assembling parts.....atleast if you want the results to be anything more than a functioning turd pile. Honestly, unless you have experience in designing subwoofers (not just reconing them) then there is no use in attempting a business venture into that arena.

Thx, that being said 80% of the car speakers out there dont impress me either including some of the mega buck units Most 6.5" drivers simply lack the displacement capabilities to really provide much output in the lower midbass.

Keep in mind when you are looking for low frequency extension you can't just look at Fs. You have to consider Fs in relation to Q as well as the enclosure among other things such as power and displacement capabilities. Even if the Fs is reasonably low in frequency but the Q is also very low, you are running them pseudo-IB in your door and their displacement is fairly limited.....low frequency extension is still going to be limited. It's a simple fact of physics. Another thing to keep in mind that is B&C's rated Xmax is 2-way not 1-way because it's total coil overhang. The moral of the story is that you will have a difficult time finding a pro audio style driver with decent low frequency extension in the type of installations we typically perform in car audio. It's a basic compromise of their design, there is no way around it.

That was just terrible.

I hate that city. Have to drive there all the time for work. Matter of fact, I'm not a fan of that entire state. Stupid ass state. No offense to you Michiganders. I concur. What specifically about Michigan do you not like? I agree with you to a certain point, but its nice to hear other peoples opinion. How much time do you have? I hate the way property taxes are handled. It's a gigantic PITA to find out how much someone owes since the township handles current year taxes but county handles delinquent taxes, so the county can't tell you much of anything about the township taxes and the township can't tell you much of anything about the county taxes. And the township taxes are handled by some random individual. So you typically have to call their home phone and end up leaving a message, and they never bother to even return your call so you can never get the info that you need.They are a non-title holding state, the concept of which doesn't make any sense to me. And in addition to being a non-title holding state they send NO notification or proof to the lienholder of a vehicle that their lien has been added to the vehicle. Why?90% of the houses don't have house numbers.The county roads zig-zag all over the damn place....for example, to drive from one end of Southern road to the other end of Southern Road (Bronson, MI) you have to turn right onto Rierson Rd then turn left back onto Southern Rd, then turn right onto Orland Rd then turn left back onto Southern Rd, then right onto George Rd then left back onto Southern Road.......is there a reason they couldn't have just made the fucking road straight?The maintenance of the road surfaces are terrible.Due to the above, navigating the state and finding an address is difficult at best.Difficult especially during inclement weather since they do a poor job of clearing the roads.The state was broke and had to furlow state employees to save money, but at that the same time spent millions of dollars to change all of their signs to "Pure Michigan"....why?Some of the most outrageously hillbilly redneck things I've ever seen have been in Michigan (Southeast)I hate the fact the State Police cars that those goofy oversized Andy Griffith red lights on top.Cigarettes are outrageously priced.....some places charge close to $7/pack That's just off the top of my head. There's more I can't think of at the moment.

That's per pair.... Doesn't state on the website that the price is per pair. Not saying it isn't, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they were sold individually.

What are you talking about? And why would you dig up almost a 2 month old thread? I mean really....... why the fuck would you write back when i wasnt talking to you. i was to to stefanhinote First, you messed up your post and deleted too many of the quote tags (and apparently didn't delete all of the quote text that you needed to) which makes it difficult to figure out who you were responding to. Second, you posted on a PUBLIC message forum, which means anyone is free to respond to the comment.....if you don't like that, then keep your "private" conversations to the "private messenger" forum function. Third, lose the fucking attitude, learn how to use the forum functions..........and your grammar and spelling could greatly improve while we're at it.

Moved this to the SSA section. Sorry I can't be of more assistance.

I hate that city. Have to drive there all the time for work. Matter of fact, I'm not a fan of that entire state. Stupid ass state. No offense to you Michiganders.

This complaint I'm not entirely following. The difference would be the load the amp is driving....5ohm and .2ohm, respectively. Amps don't choose, it's mathematically determined by Ohms Law. If you are going to output 2000w into a 1ohm load it is going to happen with 44.72V and 44.72A regardless of what amplifier is delivering the power. I think I probably just don't understand the point you're trying to make. As to the other points brought up in the original post, and comments like this....... I don't think he's complaining as much about manufacturer rating methods as he is the consumers reaction to them. And I would agree. I'll admit, it gets annoying watching the kiddies run around touting about how "underrated" this or that is and why that makes it an amazing product, and how you are "getting more than you paid for" as a result. They don't "accidentally" build a 2kw amp that really outputs 2500w, or a 1500w rated sub that routinely handles 2500w. Yes, the manufacturer rated them the way they did to account for a safety factor (making sure they meet or exceed rated specifications), taking the DAF into consideration and other reasons. But it's not a miracle or "getting more than you paid for". The company knows exactly what the products will do and what thier limits are, they chose to use a different rating for whatever (and admittedly often valid) reason, and those performance levels (and production costs) are accounted for in the cost of the product. You're not getting anything for free and no one (at the company) is surprised when the amp makes 25% more power than it's rated for. That's how they designed it. Which makes it substantially less astonishing than many consumers make it out to be.

You will want those subs to be in a ported enclosure. Low end output will improve significantly.

Long shot but if you could find an impedance plot for them you could calculate it out. Off topic.......have you heard those Beta co-axials before? They're cheap enough I'd thought about trying some out on the top end of a HE home audio setup because I have a pet fetish for high efficiency, but wasn't sure if the performance quality was there.

Of course, what kind of complaint is that? Every sale by every company is done with the intent to increase traffic, exposure and customer base. Do you think companies give up large amounts of profit margin simply to be "nice" one day a year? No, they do it for the ancillary benefits to themselves. That's common sense and basic business. The IA comps were on sale for a very short time for $40. They can't sell very many as they are losing money on the sale, but hopefully gaining customers, traffic and exposure in the process. If you're miffed because you missed out on the sale, tough luck. "It is what it is".

Since the recones were free it would be a much wiser decision to sell the recones and put the $$ towards purchasing something useful rather than trying to cobble together a subwoofer with free parts just because they were free. Any $$ you sell them for is pure profit, so you're not loosing anything other than spending money on a basket and motor and having a poorly performing mix-n-match sub. Or find a pair of blown drivers that the recones are made for and drop the recones into them. I don't know why "custom" cobbled together subs with random parts became popular, but they are almost never a good idea.

Box recommendations aren't that small. Stupid low fs on the 18 though. Looks very cool. Read your quotes about Fs and was expecting something in the mid-teens. I wouldn't call mid-20's "stupid low", especially for an 18". Sure it's much lower than the typical SPL oriented driver with an Fs in mid to high 30's, but hell I have a pair of 8" mids with an Fs of 27hz, and a 12" that has an Fs of 20hz. Looks like a nice driver though. More sealed oriented than a lot of the other higher power handling subs, also looks like it'd make a nice sub for HT in a LLT enclosure. What is the Le on the SP4? (since you mentioned it's overall value is lower than the N2 and you don't publish Le on the website).

Prices loaded into the store so far look great

I'm assuming your enclosure is ported and guessing 20hz is probably well below your tuning, so the enclosure would probably approximate free air at that point.....which is good, you want easy excursion. I don't know what a level of 10-15 on your headunit actually means or how much excursion the driver would have at that point. If it was fairly low then the entire process is futile. You need to exercise the suspension to loosen it up, playing it at a lower volume level does not do that. You would want the subwoofer operating at or near Xmax to actually loosen up the suspension. But again, if you have a few days or a week you have more than enough time to just use the driver like you normally would during normal play and that should be sufficient to loosen up the suspension.

Hard to say, might have just been a bad driver. If the coil isn't burnt the tinsel leads may have disconnected somewhere, sounds like you no longer have the driver so no way for us to really know what happened. If you soldered the speaker wire onto the speaker's terminals it's possible you heated something up too much which lead to the problem, such as a solder joint within the speaker failing.

Cerwin Vega Stealth amps, subs looked like they had Diamond Audio logos.

It depends on what you mean by "break in". If by "break in" you mean playing the driver at a low volume for some arbitrary period of time then no, that is a useless endeavor. The only way to "break in" a driver is to actually exercise the suspension. Typically you can do this by simply installing the driver and using it like you normally would, allowing the suspension to loosen up naturally over time. If someone feels the need to "break in" a driver prior to using it, then the most expeditious method is to do as was mentioned above and play the driver with a low frequency sine wave free air at full excursion for a while. The only real time I would see a need for this is if someone were installing a brand new sub with an extremely stiff suspension at or just before a competition and the change in T/S parameters causes a measurable difference on the meter. If you have a week you are fine, just play the damn drivers. They will be loosened up with regular, normal use during that time.

Pretty sure it started at $100K plus. Been for sale for several years. You are paying for the name and logo, nothing else. No patents, no products, etc. Just rights to the name and logo.

For the Xcon's? They have sufficient T/S parameters on the website to model enclosures. You don't need Le to model an enclosure. If the program you are using requires it be input, just toss something in like 2mH.

The change in volume and tuning due to some bracing won't be audible. I wouldn't worry about it unless you are chasing tenths on a meter, even then the change could end up being negligible.

All things equal the 15" has the potential for approximately 4.5db more output. In subbass audibly twice as loud is around a 6db difference, so it wouldn't sound twice as loud but it would definitely be noticeably louder. But it also depends on what you mean by a "bit tighter fit". It's possible to try to stuff too much sub and enclosure into a trunk, making the effective difference between the two options much less. If it would comfortably fit the 15" in a proper enclosure I would say go for the 15". If realistically the 15" and enclosure is just too big for the space then you would be better off going with the 12".

Calling or promoting amps as being "Class A" was a fad for a while. If I recall correctly there's only one "true" class A amp in car audio (and it was a tube amp), and less than a handful that stay in class A operation higher into their power output than typical. Class A in car audio is actually highly undesirable because they have a maximum efficiency of 25% and draw full current all the time, even at idle. They are well built and designed amplifiers, but honestly most of the flattering talk about them now is probably more nostalgia than anything. I'm not too fond of amplifier sonics, so I wouldn't give them the attribute of having "great sound". I think part of their allure is because people think they are something they are not; namely, class A, just as you did.