Impious

Absolutely. IMO, there is no way I would invest in something from Zed to use on pro audio drivers, just doesn't make sense. I'm not going to hide it, I HATE pro audio stuff. It's for the clubs, and that's where it needs to be. If you are going to use a quality product like Zed, please consider a nice set of components. I believe in the end, you will be much happier. Good luck to you. Since I know how Blues guys like to promote competition success......RC's Buick GN which went undefeated as well as winning the most $$ in competition history used all pro audio speakers. Eldridge, Harry Kimura, Doug Winkler (Phd in acoustics), etc etc.....all used pro audio mids and/or subs and I think we'd agree did pretty well in competition The genre of speakers isn't the problem. Just like any other type of speaker, the problem is when people use them incorrectly, for the wrong reason, and use low quality low performance speakers.

Just to offset some bias in this thread....there is nothing inherently wrong with pro audio drivers. In fact many pro audio drivers (JBL, 18sound, B&C, etc) are extremely accurate, very low distortion speakers that perform great when used within their intended design limitations and objectives. While competition isn't the end-all be-all of SQ, there have been dozens of cars to win world titles using pro audio drivers including some of the most famous vehicles and vehicles built/owned by some of the biggest names in SQ competition history. The problem with the typical pro audio driver used in car audio is that 1) the particular speakers used are not the same accurate, low distortion speakers I previously mentioned (many times even labeling the speakers "pro audio" isn't even appropriate, see my comments on the Skar "pro audio" speakers), 2) they are implemented into the system entirely incorrectly and for entirely the wrong reasons, and 3) bullet "pro audio" tweeters should never be installed in a vehicle. And as a 4th, most of the people doing it don't have a fucking clue about anything related to acoustics and are just following the crowd and assume it's "great" because they don't know any better. So, your system plan for the front stage isn't a good plan. Don't use bullet tweeters, ever. And you can't determine how you are going to use speakers you don't even know anything about performance and limitation wise. They might work in a vehicle when used properly, they might not. Generally speaking I wouldn't recommend them for the average user due to some of the various factors that need to be taken into consideration, such as their lack of low frequency extension and how to properly integrate that into your system and associated tuning requirements. I would agree with the suggestion that a standard passive component set or active setup with "normal" drivers would suit you just fine. No reason to limit yourself to pro audio drivers, and if you are more of a novice (which it appears you are) then they aren't a good idea anyways. And FWIW, most of the crowd using pro audio speakers in car audio (i.e. most of the SPL crowd using them) don't have a fucking clue what in the hell they are doing or talking about. As a general rule of thumb....don't take their advice and don't listen to their opinion of the speakers or systems performance. They're idiots. Especially if they're from Florida. Sorry Floridians, but it seems to be an epidemic down there.

The manual lists the full set of T/S. But again, nothing special and excursion is anemic.

He's always sort of made a "profit" by misleading noobs. That's how he built his name and got popular, by misleading noobs. Once he was popular he commercialize it to cash in (like any fart smeller would).

Just from a glance I see nothing special performance wise about the subwoofer to justify the $700 price tag, unless there's some special motor tech they aren't talking about. I did read however in the manual that the spider is rubber, claiming the cloth spiders on a normal subwoofer will "deteriorate". Now I'm not much into marine audio, but I can't imagine why a piece of cloth would deteriorate over time in the environment anymore than it would in any other. And I don't know enough about materials to say one is better than the other from an acoustics standpoint, but I've never seen another company using rubber spiders and there are some damned fine acoustic transducer designers out there. It would appear to me they are selling snake oil and charging exorbitantly for it. That said they did have a 6 channel full range class D at a reasonable price that would work out well for someone needing that many channels (i.e. 3-way active front stage) for a reasonable price ($550). But for only a couple hundred more you could go with the Zed Leviathan, so........

The problem is you are giving yourself a false sense of correctness by setting the gain with some instrument. Everything is a guess...from the accuracy of the equipment (and seeing clipping in the waveform on a lower end 'scope usually used isn't as precise as the internet would lead you to believe), to the "proper" level setting (test tone recording level), to the actual power output of the amplifier as conditions change, to the proper level matching between the system and thermal/mechanical abilities of the drivers in your install, to personal preference, to the varying source material....from start to finish it's based on nothing but assumptions and guesswork. It's a fundamentally inaccurate process no matter which tool you put behind the amplifier. And by using that tool you are fooling yourself into thinking it's "right". The best results, all things considered, are going to come from the user listening and making a determination on appropriate gain setting. No tool is going to get it right, so why even bother? So you can trick yourself into thinking it's "right" when it's not ? Ok, so you set the gain by ear and thought it was fine until things got smelly. So, what the hell is the big deal with backing off of it a little bit? Still stinky? Back off a bit more until things are good. You had 14K on a pair of drivers....yeah, things will get stinky. So what if you undershoot power by 20% of it's capabilities? You aren't going to hear a difference, and if you are worried about results on a meter than no tool is going to help you there anyways. If you can't hear the clipping, it doesn't matter audibly. If you have it set so high that you're damaging things then you let it go way too long and were really fucking far off.....learning experience that no tool was likely going to save you from anyways since you wouldn't have understood the inaccuracies and limitations involved in the use of that tool. I've never used anything other than my ears to set a gain, and I've blown 1 pair of subs almost 15 years ago. That's out of setting up and tinkering with probably a hundred stereos for myself and friends. It really isn't as hard to figure out as people fear.

He's a genius at self promotion though. The track recorded at -15db is loudest because it will allow for the least dynamic headroom but highest average power output from the system. If you are listening to highly compressed music (basically anything newer, especially most rap, pop and rock music) then you are probably into the "unsafe" setting territory. The best idea however is to ditch the DD1 and set the gain by ear.

Soundstream, NVX, Polk, Hertz and Nakamichi are all using that same board with varying degrees of parts quality and hence varying price points with the Hertz being the most expensive (and also has slightly better performance).

Yes they make rated power and yes they are perfectly fine amplifiers. They use the same board as about a dozen other amps.

Pretty sure there's a thread on here about those already, from not that long ago.

If you knew how to calculate port area, then you wouldn't have referenced the "sq in per cubic foot" nonsense.

This for sale thread is closed for now and I have deleted the last 4 posts as it was turning into a pissing match, which doesn't help anybody. For now I'll leave a link to the 2nd topic started by Bassink for further discussion between Bassink and Cloud to resolve the situation. http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/topic/59544-cloud77-please-read/

Apparently he tried to, that's what started the whole thing.

Yeah but that is besides the point, I didnt buy a 1550 watt amp what I bought was a amp that is advertised as a 2100 amp. Very misleading!! Had I known it was a 1500 watt amp, I wouldnt have bought it, I already have one of those. I can feel the difference in the two. Why did you even bother to "upgrade" from a 1500w amp to a 2100w amp? The audible difference between those two will be zero. The audible difference between the 1550w the amp is rated for and the 2100w you thought you were getting is likewise inaudible, so nothing to be upset about as you aren't actually missing out on anything. And the difference in power between the MMATS and the Kicker is inaudible. As was pointed out, the only possible difference creating the differences you are noticing could be a difference in amplifier settings. And you even said it was smaller and fit in your truck better, I'd consider that worthwhile if the difference in size is significant.

Efficiency would probably be slightly higher @ 4ohm as opposed to 2ohm.

Just for reference to anyone reading this thread, everything in this quoted post is wrong. Pretend you didn't read it and forget the information immediately.

It could be a huge number of things. About the only way to tell if it's actually a change in the system response or a change in your hearing (your hearing isn't linear with SPL, it compresses the low frequencies more at higher SPL's) is to put is on an RTA and see if the actual system response is changing in the manor in which you describe. Once you verify the change in actual frequency response (if it exists) and see what changes and where, you can start to deduce causes. Otherwise we're just throwing shit at the wall to see if any of it sticks.

It's in the off-topic section where people can discuss their non-audio related interested.

Happy Birthday !!

Gotcha. I didn't realize you couldn't use multiple plug-ins on the mini-DSP. Would be a shit ton more flexible if you could.

I don't see a question. Are you asking about how to implement rear fill or our thoughts on being able to use multiple plug-ins on a single mini-DSP unit ? Or ways to generate a L-R signal ?

Yah not going under the car. This is my plan. Is it safer to go with say a 250amp fuse on both ends near the battery? Also my other question was should I use a fuse on the line from the rear battery to the fused distribution block? Every power run needs to have a fuse as close to the source as possible as a proper safety precaution.

How close are you to assembling drivers?

It's called sibilance. Normally it's in the 4khz-9khz range, where in that range depends on the artists voice and other factors. EQ'ing down the offending frequencies might help, but the problem might not be the driver's themselves. It could be an install issue (such as poor driver aiming) or a reflection that's causing the problem. In which case you'd be better off to fix the install/reflection if possible than trying to EQ it away. For example, some tweeters run a little hot through the midband when the are on-axis and turning them off-axis can smooth out the response. More details as to the speaker locations/aiming and the vehicle would be helpful. Also would be helpful to know what EQ functionality you have available to you.

The Royal Excelene I just bought is stamped 50mm2 on the jacket, which is technically smaller than 0/1ga by 3.5mm2 assuming it's an accurate number and they didn't just round for simplicity sake. But worst case 3.5mm2 isn't enough to make a difference in any situation but those maxing out the capabilities of the wire, at which point it would be wise to step up a gauge anyways.