Impious

I glanced at the manual and it didn't specify. It would need to have a circuit so that when the switch was set to "HPF" it would disengage the SSF. Your best bet would probably to email Jacob to see if this is the case or not. It may not have anything that disengages the SSF when the amplifier is set to HPF. Not "weird", but predictable For example, if you stack a 2nd order Butterworth filter with a 2nd order Butteworth filter, with say a 12db/oct highpass crossover in the headunit and a 12db/oct highpass crossover in the amplifier both set to the same frequency, you now effectively created a 4th order Linkwitz-Riley Which would be -6db at the crossover point with a 24db/oct slope. Ofcourse it gets a little involved if you are staggering different filter types, and yes it can (or will) affect the crossover point and slope. But all of that is not necessarily bad. In fact in many situations it may actually be beneficial. If the OP were to set the SSF and HPF to the same frequency, it would be -6db at the crossover point with a 36db/oct slope (assuming the SSF is 24db/oct). It would appear at first glance that the HPF is set a little high. IMO no reason to set a highpass for a 6.5" mid at 125hz. If he wants better midbass, I would suggest decreasing that and if the 12db/oct slope seems a little too shallow to properly protect the mid, try raising the SSF to increase the slope. That is, ofcourse, assuming the amplifier isn't damaged and that both HPF and SSF are supposed to be functional at the same time.

Since you are going to be using the 9887 for all of the crossover duties, you will want to leave the crossovers on the amplifiers set to full pass.

That's how I roll

He actually posted that question on this forum aswell Link here:

Based on listed parameters it has an inductive corner frequency of ~392hz. If you still intend on trying to use a 400hz crossover frequency, that may be pushing the envelope.

That's actually a really good sub. Built by TC Sounds, based on the TC7 motor. But as Duran mentioned, not really a ported enclosure subwoofer. I used to have four of the 88120DVC (12" version of that model).

That isn't really because they are "Long throw" in as much as the long throw typically requires a longer coil in the gap. Most manufacturers tend to use the overhung coil, which is a long coil one that extends beyond both ends of the gap, as it maintains a pretty linear BL, and it also increases powerhandling. But the downside is this longer coil raises the inductance of the driver and driver speed is pretty much dependent upon it's inductance. Here is a white paper on the subject... although it may be a bit over your head, you may gather some information on how a driver's function is affected by it's inductance. http://adireaudio.co...WooferSpeed.pdf The W0s are not actually "crisper" drivers, they are actually more distorted drivers... That is they have less linear BL (motor force) and less linear CMS (suspension compliance), creating distortions that are actually pleasing to many listeners. I know a lot of people like to rag on the W7, but it is actually a pretty impressive driver, with regards to innovative design and linearity. Like I said in the other thread, most people actually like distortions in the subbass and midbass regions. A couple quick (no pun intended) additional points to mention; Subbass frequencies are not "quick" frequencies. True subbass is not going to be "tight" and "crisp". It is, by it's very nature, slow and thick. When people attribute a subwoofer as being "tight" and "punchy", it's typically going to be because the subwoofer lacks sufficient low frequency extension/capabilities and/or a peak in the lower midbass frequencies giving it the appearance of being "quick". You can't make a 30hz note tight and crisp, properly reproduced it's simply not that type of tone. This is probably one of the reasons why you noted the "crispness" of the W0 in relation to the W7; The W7 has far more capability to reproduce the lower notes properly compared to the W0, so it was more correctly/strongly reproducing those slow, thick notes that the W0 probably lacked. And/or the W0 may have been a little more peaky in the lower midbass making it seem more tight and crisp simply as a function of it's frequency response. If a subwoofer has a peak in the lower octaves then those tight/quick midbass frequencies are going to have comparatively less output which will make the driver seem less snappy, again simply as a function of it's frequency response. It's not that the driver lacks adequate output in the lower midbass, it's just overwhelmed by the amount of lower subbass output. This is a typical problem with the long-throw supersubs that have no problem reproducing the frequencies in the lower register. People use an enclosure designed for a low anechoic F3 which, when placed in a car, become extremely bottom-heavy. There was a lot of talk about drivers like the old Brahma lacking upper frequency response when the simple matter of fact was that there was no physical or electrical reason for this to be the case. The users were simply installing the drivers in an enclosure that overemphasised the low frequencies so that the upper bass was comparatively much lower in volume. If you are noticing a trend, the issue is normally one of frequency response and not one of the actual ability to reproduce the tight/snappy/crisp frequencies. This same problem can be carried forward into midbass drivers. It could be that these long throw drivers are comparatively louder at lower frequencies where the lower-throw drivers weren't as capable which is making the snap/punch seem more subdued on the long-throw drivers. Also, Andy from JBL recently mentioned on DIYMA that snappy, punchy midbass depends also on flat response between 1kh - 4khz. This wasn't really something I had thought about before, but since reading that I've been spending more time really listening in my stereo and came to realize......he was right! If you look at that graph posted earlier you can see that the harmonics on many of the "snap" producing instruments extend into the several kilohertz range.

Clipping is transient, as is power output. And it can be eliminated. The amplifier is being overdriven on the peaks of the music, and as a result the top and bottom of the waveforms are cut off (which is why it's called clipping, the wave looks like the tops and bottoms were clipped off). This is bad because while this is occurring, the average power of the signal increases (it can double in the worst cases) which can overdrive the connected speakers. Yes, it is primarily a function of an improperly set gain, bass boost, boosting the signal with an EQ, overdriving the input of the amplifier with too much signal, etc. If you were experiencing clipping, it was likely a result of one of these being improperly set and reducing their level will alleviate the problem. How exactly were your system settings adjusted? What amplifier and headunit are you using?

The purpose behind the light bulb is to protect the tweeter from being over powered. Once power reaches a level sufficient to begin lighting the bulb, the resistance of the filament will begin to increase. Due to a portion of power from the amplifier being wasted as heat by the bulb and the resistance of the circuit increasing, the power being delivered to the tweeter is reduced...ideally keeping the tweeter from being thermally overpowered and damaged. If you are actually blowing the bulb, then it's effectively acting like a fuse. Rather than simply lighting to reduce the power applied to the tweeter, the light bulb is being overpowered and blowing. You're either using too much power (possibly clipping), or the size light bulb is too small and could be probably be increased some.

It's possible to use different tweeters, but not just any tweeter will work. You would need to find out the crossover point and slope as well as what impedance tweeter the crossover was designed to work with. Also if it has a tweeter attenuation circuit, it may not be as accurate depending on different factors. Those tweeters may have been OEM'd for them by another company. You may try to ask Diamond and see if they were based on any particular model from one of the main buildhouses.

Right now I have a Blaupunkt VA-2200 bridged to each channel, which is rated 600w RMS @ 4ohm. So I have 600w per channel to them at the moment. When I switch to active I'll use these for the mids, so I'll have 600w per midwoofer. I also have a Blaupunkt VA-2100 which when running active will be used to power the tweeters, that is 100w x 2 @ 4ohm. So when running active, I have an available 1400w+ on my frontstage I don't know for certain where the factory crossover points are. I'm probably going to shoot an email off to Bravox to see if they'll release some information on the tweeter (Fs, etc) and the xover point of the passives and use it as a starting point.

Yes, if (or when) I install them more permanently I would run them active.

Well, I don't have a schematic and haven't tried to trace the components on the board, but my rudimentary understanding of passive crossovers would lead me to believe the following: The large cap and large inductor are a 2nd order lowpass (12db/oct electric slope) for the midwoofer. [outlined in red] The small cap and small inductor are a 2nd order highpass (12db/oct electric slope) for the tweeter. [outlined in black] The two resistors are probably for the tweeter attenuation circuit. [outlined in green] The two polyswitches are tweeter protection [the arrow] I don't have the ability to measure the inductance of either inductor so I don't have a means by which to nail down the crossover point.

I have to say, I'm on about day 5 with the speakers installed. I'm past the critical listening stage, just listening for the sake of enjoying my favorite music while I'm on the road now. As I cycle through my music collection, I'm still noticing nuances in the music I hadn't noticed before. I had originally sort of attributed some of this to simply listening more closely to the music than I had before....but even now, when I'm just listening to rock out and not evaluate, these details are still catching my attention. I really hadn't expected I would enjoy these speakers as much as I have. LOL.....Cool beans.

I would skip the idea of trying to run a 3" widebander for your goals. It's just not going to work for your objective. If you are just looking for loud, the cheapest and most effective route is probably the 3-way w/ large midbass, 6 - 8" midrange and bullet tweeters. It will have it's fair share of acoustic problems, but if those aren't your primary concern then it may be a fair trade-off for your goals. You could do a 2-way or 3-way with a HLCD, get the type of sound you are after and possibly still salvage some semblance of decent imaging and in-car sound, but it'd likely be more expensive. The commonly used bullet tweeters usually run $25-$50 each new, car specific HLCD usually go for $250-$500 used depending on model. It'd be easier to run 2-way as you could cross the horns as low as 900hz - 1khz. You could run 2-way with this setup with 8's or 10's, but running 3-way could gain you some more flexibility in driver selection and probably better overall sound at the cost of real estate, tuning and cost. And with the car audio specific HLCD's being mounted under-dash, you wouldn't have to piss with your A-pillars.

They are based on the Dayton Reference HO which has a long standing reputation for it's good distortion performance and overall sound quality at an affordable price. Steve at Daber has said there are some suspension differences between the HO and the Daber line, but I wouldn't expect the differences to materially affect it's attributes based on the T/S similarities. So, in short, you shouldn't be disappointed with it's performance They have a good pedigree.

Anywhere from $150-400 new, each. What exactly are you trying to accomplish here? More dynamic sound but with good accurate reproduction and proper imaging? Or just trying to be heard from a half mile away? Really hard to give any suggestions without knowing your actual goals. Too many people equate pro audio with "who cares how it sounds as long as it's loud!" (and many of the users require only this level performance out of their own systems using these speakers), so when someone asks for recommendations on high sensitivity drivers the suggestions pay little attention to the actual quality of the sound produced or goals for the system. Most of those "loud" pro audio car setups don't follow the best acoustic practices either. The reality however is that there are lower-average quality products that have lower-average performance and higher quality products that are very well behaved in terms of distortion, linearity and response. Knowing your goal will determine which product range fits your needs. Also, knowing your goals as far as imaging will help provide a realistic expectation as speaker placement and as a result, size constraints. I will say that you are not going to find a high sensitivity 3" or 4" driver. Sensitivity is partially a function of cone area, and as cone area goes down and motor size decreases, you begin to limit the driver's ability to maintain a high sensitivity. So matching a low sensitivity 3" full range driver with a high sensitivity midbass and midrange is going to require you reduce the level of the midbass and midrange to properly level-match the drivers......which sort of defeats the purpose (unless you are purchasing the high sensitivity driver for it's other traits, such as distortion performance. But that doesn't sound like your objective). Also, most super-tweeters or bullet tweeters need highpassed in the 3khz - 5khz range. A 6" driver is going to begin beaming well below that point as well as probably run into some potential issues with things like cone breakup modes/etc. Now, not all beaming is bad as it can serve as pattern control, but it's also not always good or useful and can create another layer of complications to the installation/tuning if good sound and imaging is your goal. Horns in generally are not newb-friendly. That's not a knock at you as I have no idea of your abilities, but if your tuning skills are on the newer end of the spectrum expect to spend considerable time tuning the system before it sounds (atleast until you get that MS-8 listed in your sig which will take care of most of the hard work for you). However, for other reasons such as better pattern control and horn loading as well as available bandwidth (and overall performance in general) they are a much better option than bullet tweeters. So, after a bit of rambling......what exactly are you trying to accomplish?

Actually I covered that all the way back on PAGE 2 of this thread.

I probably should have mentioned when I suggested a modeling program, to model them in your airspace and not look at the "recommended" enclosure alignments for this reason. The physics are the same, so it will "model" the low end response in any alignment accurately but the programs suggested alignments will be biased to ported as sandt point out.

I have JBL 2118H's, but for a partially different reason. If you are looking to purchase quality performing pro audio, the B&C are generally good. Off hand 18sound and JBL also produce well performing higher sensitivity drivers. They can get spendy though.

Yeah, for that budget you would probably need to look at all-in-one amp and processing. You could grab a used H701 for $300 or so, but that might press your amplifier budget a little too tight. Though if you poke your head around, there's usually some good amplifier deals to be found. Db-r has a b-stock Sundown SAE-1200D for $160. That'd give you 1200w @ 1ohm for $160+shipping. Hard to beat that. http://www.db-r.com/sell/store2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_67_69_82&products_id=236

I haven't ran the numbers myself, but using an accurate modeling is a good idea. It helps to visualize the differences. Building some test boxes to see what you think of the differences would also help you along.

ID CD2Neo horns, midbass would either be CSS Trio8 or JBL 2218H (have them both). It's still up in the air, still trying to decide. I love the dynamics of horns, but they can be a bear to tune properly. If I kept the Bravox in the car, I would run them active since I have that option and it allows for more control and fine tuning. Much simpler setup than the horns with better results much quicker and likely much less required tuning, and after using them I know I'll be more than satisfied with the results if I go this route as well.

Thanks for the kind words and taking the time read the review guys Much appreciated.