Impious

I believe Zed revised the rated power figures between original conception and time of production. Zed's Manual and both third-party reviews linked to from his website all list rated power as 150w @ 4ohm, 250w @ 2ohm and 500w @ 4ohm bridged. Both tests report the Leviathan exceeding those power output ratings at 14.4V. It was originally anticipated to have ratings of 150/300/600. But none of the "official" material for the production units list those figures anymore. Which really isn't a big deal, IMO. Stephen revised the ratings as appropriate to accurately reflect actual performance for the production units, and the difference between both 250w and 300w, and 500w and 600w, is less than 1db which means the actual power difference between preproduction estimates and production unit ratings/performance is completely inaudible. I think the SSA store just needs to update the product information.

Those CF's are a great deal at these prices. If anyone was considering upgrading their speakers, now is the time to do it!

Please elaborate on the "dirty power" comment and what makes Sundown less "dirty"?

Just curious what reviews you were looking at. Got any links?

I think the banner at the top of this section needs an update. It shows a picture of the older Draconia instead of either of his newer amps

That's a no-brainer. . You hooked the power antenna lead up for the remote turn-on instead. When you switch to a source different from the tuner, it switches the antenna lead off and likewise, your amplifier. Switch the leads and you should be good. The unit should have a separate wire for amplification control. Was just getting ready to say the same thing.

I cheat and use MS Excel to calculate just about everything math related

Not half of the voltage. That is incorrect. You would multiple your "passband" voltage by .707, and that would give you the target voltage for the crossover, or the -3db point of the signal. We can verify this with Ohms Law, which I'll show down below. You could just start with an 80hz tone and leave the crossover off (assuming it has an "off" switch or the range is adjustable enough to leave the initial signal unaffected). But you wouldn't have a target voltage of 10V for the -3db point. The target voltage for the -3db point, based on a 20V starting voltage, would be 14.14V. We can verify this back with Ohms Law. For example purposes, we'll pretend load (speaker) is 4ohm. 20V^2/4ohm = 100w 14.14V^2/4ohm = 49.9w (we'll just round this up to an even 50) 10*log(100/50) = 3db So, we just verified the difference in voltage is 3db The reason the target voltage for the -3db point of the signal is .707 and not half is because the decibel difference for voltage is a 20*log function and not a 10*log function like power output differences are. 20*log(1/.707) = 3db Half voltage would instead be -6db.

Strand count doesn't really matter for anything other than flexibility. As long as it's pure copper and properly sized wire for the stated gauge, it doesn't matter, wire is wire. Lamp cord from Home Depot will work exactly the same as speaker wire from Knu provided they are both copper and both the same gauge. The gain would be minimal. If you are competing in SPL, you may see a tenth or two of a difference if you want from 14ga down to something like 8ga. Theoretically there is an inaudible but measurable difference.

1st, I moved this to product reviews as it appears more of a review than a discussion topic. 2nd, your link doesn't work.

That statement really makes no sense.

You have less volume because you used a 0db test tone to set the gain, which results in a very conservative gain setting. Basically, the amplifier will only reach "full power" with a 0db signal, which hardly ever happens in music. And in the range where your music spends most of it's time, the amplifier is outputting much less power. The two options are to set the gain by ear, or use a test tone recorded at a level lower than 0db, such as -3db, -6db, or -10db.

Unless your amplifier is broken, it should not be producing audible levels distortion unless you are pushing it past it's linear limits. What enclosure is the Xcon in?

I've seen you reference "Max" power on more than one occasion. Just an FYI, "Max" power is pretty much entirely meaningless. The Zed is a fairly pricey piece of equipment. Now, I'm normally one who's all for the higher power option. But if you have an extra $200 in your budget, you would be better off spending it on the speakers right now and purchasing better performing speakers than an amplifier.

Line driver isn't going to do anything about "sloppy bass". Seems to me you already had yourself talked into a line driver, regardless of the waste of money they generally turn out to be. Adding a line driver also increases your risk of introducing ground loops and noise into the signal chain as you're adding another component to the chain. Also, I'm sure if you've actually pin-pointed the gain setting as the source of the "noise" or if you're just guessing, but unless you've been able to exclude all other variables and identify the gain setting as the cause then you're just throwing darts. Really no point in this thread as it appears you were going to purchase one regardless.

Unless your amp is broken it should have no issues playing to 100hz.

Not really the type of "problem noise" I was really referring to that would necessitate a line driver or amplifier change. If it were cause audible problems during playback, that would be more of a cause for concern.

A line driver is almost never necessary anymore. Considering most amplifiers on the market can make full power with as little as .2V, about the only time I'd consider a line driver a viable option is if the amplifier had an intolerable amount of audible noise with a high gain setting. Even then, changing amplifiers might be a cheaper and more suitable option.

What would cause you to think this? It sounds like you need a lesson on the basics. The impedance isn't "created" by the source as you seem to be implying. You can't just increase the current output and expect impedance to decrease. By just randomly plugging numbers into Ohms Law it may appear this is possible; but it's not. Certain values in the actual circuit must be known before you can attempt to incorporate Ohms Law. The voltage and amperage you are measuring don't create an impedance. You may calculate the impedance, by using Ohms Law, because of the known variables at your disposal (the measured voltage and amperage). But the only reason you are calculating for impedance is because you are measuring the voltage and current, so you need to calculate the missing variable; impedance. To keep things simple, lets assume we are playing a test tone through the system. The load (the speaker in our case) has an impedance. This is a physical property of the loudspeaker, not a theoretical figure calculated by Ohms Law (even if calculating it is how you are able to determine what value the impedance is). The amplifier is operating at a certain level of voltage output. These two properties are going to determine the power output of the amplifier and as a result the amount of current drawn by the load. If the voltage output is 50V and the load is 4ohm, the power output would be 625w and the current output would be 12.5A. If the voltage output is 50V and the load is 2ohm, the power output would be 1250w and the current output would be 25A. The impedance of the speaker is a result of multiple different factors. The design of the enclosure, the frequency being played and the amount of heat in the coil are all going to affect impedance rise. The impedance of a 1ohm speaker at resonance may be 20ohm or more, and there's nothing you can do about it. The only way to increase the amperage output in the above example is to decrease the impedance of the speaker or increase the voltage output of the amplifier. You can not increase the amperage to decrease the impedance. It simply doesn't work that way. I assume your ultimate goal here is to get more power into the subwoofer. If you want to increase the power the subwoofer is receiving, you either need to decrease the impedance of the load (which is NOT going to happen by "creating more AC Amps") or increase the voltage output of the amplifier (which may not be possible without changing amplifiers). Just an FYI, what's going to happen when you push more power into the speaker is that the coil is going to heat up more, causing it's resistance to rise higher, creating a higher impedance, not lower. Are you aiming for an SPL fart cannon or a daily driver system? If your goal is a daily driver system, forget about impedance rise. Forget about measuring voltage and current. Just forget about it, they are ultimately unimportant to your goal. You won't have enough control over any of it to make any difference, so just stop worrying about it.

Yes. How much depends on the vehicle.

I dont mean to thread jack but how does he know which 8"s will do what he wants? Looks at as many reviews as he can? Research, reviews, and learning how to understand some of the information on the drivers presented on those pages.

It depends on your wire gauge and the construction/conductivity of your automobile. Richard Clark claims to have tested a variety of vehicles and found the average vehicle chassis is equivalent to 17' of 4ga wire. Andy @ JBL claims they tested a variety of vehicles and found the average vehicle chassis is equivalent to 17' of 2/0ga wire. Who's right? I don't know, I haven't tested it myself. If you have an actual frame to ground to, you would probably be pretty safe to ground to that. But it's possible, depending on the construction of your vehicle, that the chassis would make a worse ground than running it directly back to your battery.

Your best bet would be the ID forums. It's been a while since I've done much reading on them, and I've not heard all 4 lines, so this is going from (my poor) memory of the subjective descriptions: I would avoid the old CD1e's if you run across them. They didn't use real compression drivers, but instead piezo drivers. Ok entry level stuff, but not as senstivity or as good as the other models. The CD1e v3 are entry level, not going to do as well in any category as the other models but finally use a real compression driver as opposed to the piezo in the older CD1e. The CD1Pro doesn't have as good of midrange as the higher models but has better top end than the CD2Comp and slightly lower sensitivity than the CD2Comp The CD2Comp has better midrange than the lower 2 lines, not as much top end as the CD1Pro and has the highest sensitivity of the group. There are also different "versions" of this driver; Titanium diaphragm (linked), Mylar diaphragm, then the CD2Neo (which I have) use basically a "modified" B&C DE500 compression driver instead of the standard CD2 compression driver. Everyone has a different opinion on which diaphragm/driver is "better"....I think general consensus was that the Neo's were slightly better. The new Ultra's are supposed to be the best of both worlds and then some. I believe a lot of the Team ID guys like this driver better than either the CD1Pro's or the various iterations of the CD2's. It actually replaced both the CD1Pro and CD2Comp's in the product line-up, I believe because ID didn't see the need for either after the release of these. The full bodies are going to be able to handle a lower crossover frequency than the minihorn versions, but the minihorns are a lot easier to fit in some vehicles. Also, while the CD1e drivers were crap some people used the CD1e full body lenses with compression drivers from the higher models because the throat was straight-entry as opposed to being angled which some people felt gave this combination a little better sound. Like I said before, unless you really want new.....I would look for a used set first. I bought my CD2Neo's used for $220 shipped.....which is a better deal than normally found, but gives you an idea of how much can be saved new vs used on these. Being that the Ultra's are the newest model, they aren't as cheap used.....I think they normally go for the $400-500 range. But the CD1Pro and CD2's can normally be found in the $250-350 range used but not abused.

IMO you are heading down the wrong path. I would be looking more into something like THIS or THIS or THIS

The screws are only there to act as a "clamp" and hold the two pieces of wood together until the glue dries. The glue is the actual bonding agent and strength of the seam, not the screws. Just an FYI.