Impious

So......are you just going 2-way passive then? 2-way active? I'm sorry, but you're just not giving us enough information to really help you out. I asked detailed questions in my previous post....detailed answers to those questions would get this thread headed in the right direction and allow it to actually provide some useful information.

Proof required, on both claims. And I can link you to some reviews of cheap Sony amps showing that even they produce rated power output.....so I'm not so sure your "very few brands put out rated power" is even remotely accurate to start with.

Why? I guess I'm not getting something here......

If the left side isn't playing, and you just switch the RCA cables at the input of the MS-8 (i.e. plug the "left" RCA into the "right" input and "right" RCA cable into the "left" input), does the left side begin to play? If so, sounds like you simply have a bad RCA cable.

First, let's better define midbass. Are you looking at a 2-way or 3-way front stage? Are you asking for placement suggestions, or driver selections? If the later, we need to 1st determine the installation and constraints, then determine a budget and listening/performance considerations. What are you and aren't you willing to construct and/or modify in the vehicle? Are you looking for good imaging and soundstaging? What type of processing will you have available? Will you be active or passive? I know it sounds like we're being pains in the ass and not answering your questions.....but really, we need to get a much better idea about things before we can try to help. You had an outline of what you were doing in your 1st post, but you've kind of been wandering since then in the direction are wanting to take.....so I'm not sure where things stand right now.

Either those amps suck, or it was something else he changed at the same time. Like not properly readjusting the gain, or atleast not adjusting it to a similar setting.....

It depends on what exactly it is you are trying to do......

About the only "problem" with a square subwoofer is the increased stress at the corners of the surround and stress on the cone. Though all you have to do is physically look at one of Kicker's drivers to see what they did to combat these problems. Within the bandwidth of the driver, these issues probably have more do to with longevity of the driver than actual audibility. The people making comments about how bad square drivers sound need to step back and realize that it had nothing at all to do with the shape of the cone. First and foremost it comes down to enclosure selection, installation and tuning. Second, the driver's design in terms of mechanical and electrical parameters and performance might have not aligned with their goals.....it wouldn't have mattered if the cone was square or round, the driver was simply not for them. More companies aren't using them for the simple reason Sean mentioned. The cost of tooling the parts is probably not worth the benefit for most non-mainstream companies such as Fi, etc. You have to custom design and tool a cone, surround and basket at minimum. That's not cheap.

No. Just no.

Well, ~25% per cone could be a differnce once you start to multiply them. Sure it could all add up, but for the average consumer, having a 10" square driver vs a 10" circular driver, the difference would be less then 25% and likely not audible, tuning the enclosure / raising net volume would be more noticeable And were not even talking about the actual sd of the driver, this number varies from model to model. And by your standards of gaining more output the driver could just have more xmax and thus more displacement. But theirs a limit to everything and a point to where it's not worth it, everything has it's trade-offs A 25% increase doesn't sound like much, until you realize there's only about a 35% difference in cone area between a 10" circular driver and a 12" circular driver. So you are almost gaining as much cone area by switching from a circle to a square of the same nominal size, as you would from exchanging a 10" circular driver for a 12" circular driver. In terms of output, a 25% increase in displacements equates to approximately a 2db increase in output (at equivalent excursion levels). Definitely an advantage, as well as audible.

i want to give my amp the most volts. that is a good thing right? No, in 99.9% of cases it's completely unnecessary. We actually had this conversation in another thread. If you wish to know the reasons why it's unnecessary, please READ THIS THREAD (click me) As M5 pointed out, in addition to being completely unnecessary in almost all situations anymore, it's also possible to over drive and clip the preamp input stage of the amplifier.....which is bad. The only time anyone would need or benefit from a line driver is in the very few instances where there is a very specific "problem" that needs fixed.....and pretty much all of that is outlined in the above linked thread. And actually, introducing a line driver could be worse for the system overall if used when not absolutely necessary as it introduces the potential for additional noise and ground loops into the system.

I could be wrong, but if I had to guess I would say that is probably just a typo. That said; it doesn't really matter whether the subwoofer is wired in-phase or out of phase, as long as you wire it for the best sound. Ideally you would try it wired both in-phase (positive to positive, negative to negative) and out of phase (as the diagram shows) and see which sounds better anyways.

Really, you can't make the first statement, then follow it up with the second statement. The quality of the test and methodology has everything to do with the results. If the test and/or methodology are invalid, so are the results. From what he briefly mentioned of his test methodology, I don't see where any real meaningful conclusions could be drawn. A story for another day.....but I would disagree.

LOL.....not a snowballs chance in hell that sub is worth the OP (or anyone else) considering then. Asking LMS prices ($800) for a non-LMS driver, with no T/S parameters, and performance that is not going to be anywhere remotely close to the original driver ? I'd offer him $200 for the motor itself, then buy the replacement top assembly from PE ~$550. Then you could have an actual LMS Ultra for $750

Personally I'd never recommend a "hybrid" sub unless the seller were able to supply some pretty descriptive details about the driver. What you listed there is pretty meaningless on the whole. Is he able to provide you T/S parameters for the driver? What is the length of the coil and gap height? If he can't answer these basic questions, it would be a no brainer to pass on the "deal" without hesitation. Also, unless PSI used the LMT coils, which I don't believe he can as the patent is owned by TC Sounds......it would no longer be an "LMS" subwoofer as the coil is what makes the driver "LMS", as "LMS" denotes use of the "LMT" coil. And the "LMT" coil is part of what makes the driver what it is as it improves BL linearity. Considering his price is only $100 off the price of an LMS Ultra from PE.....I'd just wait for PE to get more stock rather than try to save 10% and get a cobbled together hybrid. Personally I don't see the appeal of a "hybrid" driver. The "hybrid" driver more than likely doesn't have anywhere near the amount of engineering time invested as the original product did. Chances of a "hybrid" being a superior driver to the original are generally going to be very low, especially when most of the time people can't even supply something as basic as T/S parameters. It's almost always going to be a better idea to look for something with original parts, which is going to operate as it was designed to operate than purchasing a "hybrid" subwoofer.

Some headunit's "subwoofer" outputs double as a "non-fading" output ,which would be stereo.

I would check and make sure none of the speaker wires are shorting out. Including the wires in the wiring harness. Is this a new unit, or something that just started happening? Yes, it's possible for the RCA outputs to work even if the internal power amplifier does not, depending on what's damaged.

In addition to what Helotaxi said.....it also depends on your music selection....not a whole lot of "mainstream" music includes information in the sub-30hz range.

If you were referring to me....I believe at the time I was simply stating that no one (at the time) could actually demonstrate that the new lineup was overrated, as that particular thread was littered with people putting them down with no actual information to support that position. You know.... "Yeah but Hifonics is overrated, I'd rather have a Sundown" It was just one of my "you guys need to think before you speak" sermons

You're welcome

For the most part.....yes. They are assuming that another brands "12awg" wire is actually equivalent to "16awg" wire, and that another brands "4awg" wire is actually equivalent to "8awg" wire, which is more than likely not going to be the case unless you bought flea market brand wire. That said....yes, there is going to be some voltage drop across the wire. Most wire gauge charts that recommend X gauge wire for Y amplifier power is making that recommendation based on expected voltage drop for a given length of wire. The goal is to have less than .5V of voltage drop across the wire. Having greater than .5V drop is generally considered to be unacceptable. BCAE1 has a calculator HERE for speaker wire.

Word of caution: It's impossible to "compare" two speaker sets in two different vehicle, with two different installations, etc. The setup of the Focals might have just been really bad. The MS-8 is a good unit, but it's not magic or a miracle worker. The sound of the install is still subject to the quality of the installation and setup, and really there are various ways to "manipulate" the tuning of the MS-8.....so just because they both ran an MS-8 doesn't mean that the tuning quality was equal. It sounds like you already understood this for the most part given your comments, but it still needed said just for clarification. We can't tell you which you'll like better. But, What is your budget? What are you using for amplification? Do you have the knowledge/ability to go active?

What were you looking for advice on exactly?

I would try hitting up Grizz Archer over on DIYMA. He works @ Epsilon. Might be able to help you out with either a schematic or what needs to be done to bypass the circuit.

Those results are misleading. Don't pay any attention to them. Any way you could elaborate on this? For starters, he didn't do anything to measure distortion. For all we know the signal was clipped to all hell, or he was operating the amplifier at a high distortion level.....both of which would be of no use to someone using the amplifier for musical "daily driving" purposes. A lot of people try to compare the figures in Jacob's test to the amplifiers rated power and quickly exclaim that Sundown is significantly underrated......what they don't account for is the fact that rated power is measured at a specified distortion level, and Jacob's test doesn't address the amount of distortion the amplifier was operating at during his tests. So no, someone can not expect to toss a SAZ2K in their vehicle and have a usable 2400+ of power output as the distortion at that level of power may be substantial, or the signal might be clipped, etc. You can get a hell of a lot more power out of any amplifier if you ignore distortion, as Jacob did. Second, we don't know the accuracy of his test equipment. Third, he used a reactive load (the loudspeaker). This is a quote I found on another site that sums it up much better than I could: