Impious

What are your other system settings....bass boost? Any EQ in the headunit? Any other adjustments in the system which affect the subwoofer?

Just something I would not do ... and he's wondering why his equipment is not working ??? As long as the equipment is designed to handle it, which it is, nothing inherently wrong with it. Unfortunately I believe you did. As mentioned, first thing needing to be done is to verify the wiring of the subwoofers and final impedance. After that, it appears chances are good the gain needs lowered. Are you using any bass boost in addition to that high gain setting? Any other settings in the headunit or other systems settings that will affect the subwoofer?

Is the center position zero boost or cut (0db)? Or is there some level of boosting at that setting? And preamp voltage has nothing to do with how the stereo sounds. 7v output and 4V output will sound exactly the same with a properly set gain.

Can't answer without knowing what sub you are using. Also knowing how much power you will be using would be helpful.

Without knowing specifically which knobs you are talking about and what them being "centered" means, it's entirely possible that you are indeed clipping. Not sure what you mean by preamp voltage being cleaner. Assuming you have your gains set correctly there would be no difference in sound just because you had a higher preamp voltage, unless you have a shit ton of induced noise or an extremely noisy amplifier.

Thanks fellas !

nah, more like millions of dollars and super stardom You are incorrectly assuming that millions of dollars and super stardom eliminates the possibility of them being in for a world of hurt and prison terms. The two are not mutually exclusive. You've mentioned this atleast three times in this thread, as if the money is the only thing that matters in this conversation or the only thing the mother should be concerned about. It's pretty obvious the money is irrelevant to the mother. The actual core issues to the "story" have nothing to do with money, it doesn't belong anywhere in the conversation. It's irrelevant. Would you feel differently if they weren't gaining popularity, making money and appearing on magazine covers? Would you suddenly view her behavior as being acceptable if he was still an unknown artist? I'd feel the same way. How is this any different from the legions of kids writing metal music about similar subject matter? Or a kid writing a novel or short story with a horror element? Or a kid producing anime/manga/etc? Or a kid making a low-budget horror movie? Or making a violent video game? You dont want your kid to follow his dreams when he has a real good chance of making it big in an industry where so few succeed?? All of the above aren't unusual for any high school student. Oh, I forgot. Hip hop is held to a different standard than almost any other form of entertainment. I wasn't arguing for or against her actions and decisions. Simply pointing out if you want to argue against what she's doing, do so for reasons not related to the money, which seems to be your primary focus in the story but is really irrelevant to either her actions or the core issues of the story.

nah, more like millions of dollars and super stardom You are incorrectly assuming that millions of dollars and super stardom eliminates the possibility of them being in for a world of hurt and prison terms. The two are not mutually exclusive. You've mentioned this atleast three times in this thread, as if the money is the only thing that matters in this conversation or the only thing the mother should be concerned about. It's pretty obvious the money is irrelevant to the mother. The actual core issues to the "story" have nothing to do with money, it doesn't belong anywhere in the conversation. It's irrelevant. Would you feel differently if they weren't gaining popularity, making money and appearing on magazine covers? Would you suddenly view her behavior as being acceptable if he was still an unknown artist?

What they said. Need more info. Those are pretty reasonable crossover requirements, so there is going to be an abundance of options.

This is car audio; everybody's frequency response sucks. Every stereo could benefit from proper utilization of an EQ. Whether or not it's a worthwhile purchase depends on whether or not you know how to properly utilize one first and foremost. Also depends on whether or not you have your installation and equipment maximized to make the best use of an EQ, what you are trying to accomplish by adding an EQ, purchasing the proper type of EQ to best fit your needs, and a half dozen other factors. Buying one just to buy one isn't a good option, however. Buying the wrong EQ for your goals or needs isn't a good option either.

He lied to you, either intentionally or simply because he's misinformed. The most likely reason. Read this thread, it explains everything:

Rated for 400w. But if you can get a 4ohm load, you can also achieve a 1ohm load. So why not just simplify life and get a mono amp?

It doesn't matter. Amplifier will output X watts with 0 boost, add 9db boost output will be X * 8. Also, impedance doesn't peak at tuning. It peaks above and below tuning, with the middle point in the valley between the two peaks being the tuning frequency. Now, let's actually talk about the point you are trying to make. You are incorrectly assuming that because an amplifier is, for example, 1000w @ 1ohm that you have an available 1kw at any impedance. Not correct. Amplifier's clip because it's voltage rails are exceeded, which can happen at any impedance. If the amplifier is 1000w @ 1ohm, then it is capable of 31.62V. The rails are probably a little higher than that, we'll say 35V or so. Now, let's say you boost at an impedance peak where the impedance increases to 20ohm. The amplifier will be capable of 31.62^2/20 = 50w @ 20ohm. But you added 9db of boost. So the amplifier is trying to generate 400w of output. Voltage would increase to sqrt(400*20) = 89.44V. To verify that's a 9db increase, 20*log(89.44V/31.62V) = 9.03db. So, you have rails that are capable of a maximum 35V and you are trying to make the amplifier generate 89.44V....what do you think is going to happen here? You are also assuming that the amplifier is the only thing that will clip, ignoring the preamp level components. It might not necessarily damage anything....but I still wouldn't consider it an acceptable practice. I don't even know what the hell you are talking about right now. I assume you are trying to insinuate that a 9db increase is only a 3x increase in power, which is completely incorrect. 10*log(Power1/Power2) = db increase 10*log(2/1) = 3.01db 10*log(8/1) = 9.03db Therefore, to get an increase of 9db (i.e. 9db of boost on an EQ) you need an 8 fold increase power. Another way to think about it.....You need to double power to increase by 3db, then you need to double that power to increase another 3db, then you need to double that power to increase another 3db for a grand total of 9db of gain. So you would have 2 * 2 * 2, or 23 = 8. So you, again, need to increase power 8x to increase output by 9db. I understand that the boost may not have been 9db and that you misspoke in the previous post. But your comments that followed that statement made absolutely no sense whatsoever, which is what I was explaining here.

9db boost = 8x power increase.

Who told you this ?? Not saying they do, but for some reason something clicked in the depths of my mind that i've heard that somewhere. OP, for the most part, any sub can sound good as long as the box is well built. sorry bro, I wasn't saying you were wrong. Was just wondering the reasoning behind it ... The reason being that increasing cone area decreases the necessary excursion to reach a given output level. Minimizing excursion keeps the drivers operating further within their linear range, decreasing distortion and other side effects of non-linearity.

Watching a show on TLC called Extreme Couponing. First lady had over $630 worth of groceries, paid after coupons something like $2.46 Second lady had over $250 worth of groceries, paid under $6 Last guy......bought over $5200 worth of groceries and health/beauty supplies (deodorant, etc) and paid just over $240. Yes, that's a $5000 savings. That purchase included 1100 boxes of cereal......

Hundreds of coupons, literally. It takes several hours for these people to check out. Stores.....whichever is offering the best in-store discounts and multiplies the coupons. Next episode: Retail cost $1902.63, paid $103.72

What you are describing is not IB, it is called dipole. And it requires certain drivers, certain baffle dimensions, a proper crossover design and certain room requirements (such as a certain distance from walls, certain aiming, etc) in order to work correctly. It's not as easy as throwing a couple drivers on a baffle with a prebuilt crossover and expecting good results. Chances are far more probable that it would sound like crap, in fact. Crossovers for the car and home will be completely different even for the same set of drivers. So even if you get them sounding good in the house, it doesn't mean that same sound will carry over into an automobile. If you want to build a set of speakers for your home, then follow one of the designs already published on website's such as Zaph's or Partsexpress. Those are home audio designs......keep them in the home If you want a set of passive speakers for an automobile, best option is to buy a set of pre-designed components from one of the numerous car audio manufacturers. If you want to buy your own driver's to use in an automobile, best option is to go active.

*moved to the appropriate section

Good looking amps. Glad to see them updated in the SSA store. Hopefully I'll be able to run a few of them.

Iban's point is no point at all, and the point he thinks he's arguing against doesn't exist except in his mind due simply to his own inability to comprehend or think logically. He was trying to imply that anyone on this forum thinks that T/S parameters completely encompass all aspects of a driver's performance. That's a false conclusion from the start, as not a single person has said or implied as much, which makes this entire thread rather useless as he's trying to argue against a point not a single person has made. He then attempted to twist this false conclusion into meaning that subjective listening impressions are more useful than objective driver measurements (what he apparently and incorrectly believes), which is patently false when we are interested in considering a specific driver's performance attributes and an ability to make meaningful performance comparisons to any other driver. For anyone who understands the information, there is infinitely more use in objective data than there is in subjective listening impressions. And yes, this trail of objective information begins (not ends, as ibanender would like you to believe anyone here implied) with T/S parameters and continues onward through the measurements 95Honda briefly mentioned and then some. So yes, he is wrong.....he was wrong from the very start.

Or, ibanender, since you want to play games, let me pose some questions to you. Five people listen to the same set of speakers installed in the same vehicle without any changes to any of the settings. All five agree the speakers sound bad. According to you, since subjective listening impressions are apparently the only thing that matter, this would prove conclusively that the speakers are poor quality, bad sounding speakers, correct? Five people listen to the same set of speakers installed in five different vehicles with different systems and three of the five agree the speakers sound bad. According to you, since subjective listening impressions are apparently the only thing that matter, this would prove conclusively that the speakers are poor quality, bad sounding speakers, correct? Five people, including yourself, listen to the same set of speakers installed in the same vehicle without any changes to any of the settings. Four of the five agree that the speakers sound good.....you are the one who thinks they sound bad. Because four of the five think they sound good, you must obviously be wrong, correct? Now, in addition to answering those three questions, please tell me what actual, useful information we could possibly glean about the speakers themselves from any one of those three situations. Also, what information could we glean from those three scenarios that would allow either any of the listeners or any of the non-listeners to compare the speakers to any other speakers. Let's also look at another example. I wasn't out in my driveway last fall and I wasn't installing a pair of 3-way components (because, you know, I don't do that sort of thing). When I wasn't finished installing them, I (didn't) listen to them for the first time and think they sounded horrible. They must simply be terrible speakers, correct? I mean, I subjectively thought they sounded bad, therefore they must simply be bad according to you. (I'll wait to answer why this was so until after we get some responses).

The simple answer is that you are confused on the purpose of T/S parameters. But here, since you did as I asked and started a separate thread, I'll repost and respond to the post I removed from the Sundown thread. T/S parameters take care of that issue, however. A proper FR graph showing 0, 30 and 60 degree axis plots certainly does. Even then, you can approximate based on cone diameter where beaming will begin to occur and hence where you will begin to see a drop in the off-axis. That has nothing to do with the merits of the driver itself, which is what we are interested in looking at. You are, yet again, confusing separate issues. Unless those 10 people have a different listening preference than you do, and your listening preference coincides with that of the 1 person who thought they sounded bad. Then you would, in turn, think they sound bad. See the problem with giving too much merit to subjective listening impressions? That's just the tip of the iceberg, however. You'll learn infinitely more about a driver from objective information than you can from the subjective listening impressions of others. And any one individual's experience with a driver might be clouded or not representative of the true performance of the driver depending on the various factors involved. No, it's completely because of what you type and not why you type it. It's pretty obvious that you don't. Or if you do, I've yet to see it demonstrated. LOL.....nice try. Experience can tell you what you might personally like and dislike. Your experience won't tell me anything about the driver itself, however. Which is where objective measurements become useful. Experience also won't tell you why you are experiencing what you are experiencing. Objective measurements again become very useful. But if you have a problem with a theory.....by all means, try to prove it wrong. I think you have a great future in acoustics if you can overturn some of the long-standing theories and mathematics. Einstein managed to overturn Newton a century ago regarding the structure of space and time and changed our entire perspective on reality......I suppose now it's your turn to put the world on it's head with the grand knowledge you've garnered from all of this experience you have.

As I said, this thread is specifically regarding the presale on the Neo-Pro 8 /10. If you want to discuss other topics, create another thread for dicussion of those other topics as I stated above. This thread IS NOT going to be crowded with crap not directly related to the presale or information regarding the drivers. It's simply not fair to Jacob. Debating the merits of objective measurements and subjective listening impressions is not directly related to the presale or the drivers. Hence, posts go *poof*. This will be the last post in this thread regarding that matter.

If you can't find any from a member here, check ebay and the classifieds at DIYMA or heck even the ID forums.