Impious

The most affordable route is to purchase the correct products for meeting your goals, and only the necessary amount of those products to help you achieve those goals. Without knowing what you are doing, it's hard to suggest one product or "kit" over another. Give us some idea of your budget and objectives and we can help you select the best products and methods for achieving those goals. Otherwise it might end up being a waste of money no matter what product we recommend as it might not be the most effective method of achieving what you are trying to achieve. If I were to recommend you to a company, it would be to contact Don @ SoundDeadenerShowdown. He is extremely helpful and can recommend the best method of achieving your goals within your budget. To top it off he offers some of the best products in the industry.

So you know for a fact that they use the exact same formulation as Second Skin Damplifier? Where is this proven? Either way those guys @ Audio Technix don't deserve any business, regardless of how well their product may or may not perform and what products it may or may not be similar to. Much better to send your hard earned money to those businesses who deserve it. And Audio Technix isn't one of those businesses....the owner and his cronies started off on the wrong foot. As for SDS and Damp Pro, IIRC they use the same thickness adhesive/viscoelastic layer but SDS has thicker aluminum.

If you want to verify your tuning, get an impedance graph. Grab a WT3 from PE if you need a way to generate one. Trying to guess tuning based off of "peaking" inside of a vehicle is useless endeavor.

http://www.soundsolu...rs-created.html Assume you mean Vinyl, not Vynal.

As was said, not enough to make a difference. But if it floats your boat, you could always guesstimate it based on Ohms Law. Basically all you need to do is figure out the voltage output the amplifier of the amplifier at rated power, then figure out the power output with that voltage driving your load. An example; amplifier rated 1000w @ 1ohm. First we find the voltage with the formula sqrt(Power * Resistance), so sqrt(1000*1) = 31.62V. Now we just calculate power into the 1.34ohm load with the formula Voltage^2/Resistance, so 31.62^2/1.34 = 746w. So ideally that 1000w @ 1ohm amplifier would output 746w @ 1.34ohm.

Purchase a pre-built component set. Do not try to build your own, which is what it appears you are trying to do. With your experience level, "active" would not be a good option either. Just purchase a normal component set, it will be the easiest and best performing option for you. You could then bridge the amplifier, run one pair of bridged channels to the left passive and the other pair of bridged channels to the right passive. Also, having an 8ohm mid and 8ohm tweeter on a passive crossover does not equal a 4ohm load....it would be an 8ohm load.

Pretty sure those are just TC 4HP motors, maybe minor modification. They are very strong motors, which typically means very low Q. Large 4" diameter coil can be both good and bad depending on circumstances and your viewpoint on things. Sounding "good" is going to depend on your preference and what parts are ultimately used to rebuild it. Shouldn't be hard to make it loud though. Part of the problem is that you are going to be reconing the driver with as yet unknown parts....we can't tell you how a driver will sound when we don't know anything about it yet. Just knowing the motor doesn't tell us anything about what the final incarnation of the driver will be. Is it possible to make it listenable? Sure. Is it possible to turn it into a fart cannon? Sure.

Do we have a troll smiley? If not we need one.

While it's true that the impedance will rise very high in impedance on the graph, it's not necessarily true that there will be a dip in response as the point(s) where this occurs. As correctly explained, the impedance graph is simply a representation of the driver's impedance across the frequencies. A few things can be found out from an impedance graph. This is a quick but not comprehensive list of some of the things an impedance graph can tell us. First, there will be a large peak in the impedance. This big peak defines the resonant frequency (Fs) of the driver. If impedance spikes at 25hz, then the Fs of the driver is 25hz. The impedance at Fs (25hz in our example) may spike up to 30ohm or more. This very high impedance at Fs means the amplifier's output will drop substantially. So why is there not a huge drop in output at that frequency? Pretty simple, the driver doesn't need as much power at Fs as it does elsewhere. The driver will naturally resonate at Fs, so it doesn't take much power to get it going. The shape of this large impedance peak will be determined by the Q of the driver (Q describes the various damping characteristics of the loudspeaker at resonance). If you were so inclined, you could calculate the Qms, Qes and Qts from the impedance graph. More specifically, you can calculate the various Q parameters from the size and shape of the impedance peak at Fs. Minimum impedance is also shown on the impedance graph and is important to know, especially in situations where amplifiers can not handle low impedance loads. For example, in home audio a lot of amplifiers (especially those in receivers) may not be able to handle loads below 4ohm or 8ohm. So if the minimum impedance of the driver drops too low during a critical range, it may be a load too difficult for the amplifier to handle. Another thing to look for, which is less applicable to subwoofers and more towards higher frequency related drivers, are ripples in the impedance away from the big spike at Fs. If there are ripples in the impedance that indicates there are some type of resonance issues with the driver at the frequency where those ripples occur. A common issue, for example, would be cone breakup. Cone break up can create a small ripple in the impedance graph. Also the impedance graph will indicate the inductance of the voice coil. The inductance limits the high frequency response of the driver. As frequency increases above Fs the impedance will be relatively flat for a while, and then gradually start to rise. What frequency the impedance begins to rise and how quickly it rises are determined by the inductance of the voice coil. If you pick some points off of the impedance graph, you can go back and calculate the inductance of the voice coil. This is a situation (unlike Fs) where rising impedance will cause the response of the driver to begin to fall. This is because the inductance limits the ability of the driver to react to changes in current, so the driver can't adequately respond to the signal at those higher frequencies....so the response will begin to drop off. You can also tell some other things from an impedance graph of the loudspeaker in an enclosure. For example, you can determine the tuning frequency of a ported enclosure from the impedance graph. Resonance issues in the enclosure can show up in an impedance graph. You can apply a lot of the same analysis to describe the behavior of a loudspeaker in a sealed enclosure as you can to the driver in free air. Etc Etc. So, overall there are a lot of information in that impedance graph. Most of it isn't extremely relevant to the weekend warrior, however.

So, build logs aren't really my thing. For one, my fabrication skills are easily bested by a monkey on narcotics. Second, I simply don't have the patience to stop and take pictures when I'm in the middle of doing something. But, a couple people have asked so......here it is. My attempt at building kickpanels to house the CS603CF comp set. Thank you to audiolife for lending his ears while playing with the aiming, and GrampaDon for lending a hand at wrapping the kicks. Onward to the pictures I suppose. First pictures are of the basic molds for the kickpanels. My vehicle happens to have an opening in each kickpanel location that vents into the fender area, so I fashioned a hole into the molds for both kickpanels so that the midbass will see an infinite baffle alignment. The molds also have kind of an odd shape at the top because they were originally trimmed to fit around my horns. Wish I hadn't done that now that I'm not using the horns as I could have used a little extra height to work with...but I was not going to make new molds, so I rolled with it. The speaker baffles, which look a little like Mickey Mouse. Plunge router with circle jig FTMFW. First time I've countersunk with it (the midrange & tweeter baffles)....turned out pretty well IMO. The comp set in their soon-to-be home. Kickpanels in the kicks showing the aiming. I spent several hours spread over several weekend afternoons working on aiming. I felt this positioning did the best. I think the aiming might be a smidge different now as I originally didn't have quite enough clearance for the rear of the midbass with my initial aiming, and I can't remember when I took these pictures. But the aiming is pretty much the same, regardless. And the kickpanels how they currently sit. I trimmed the shape some compared to the above pictures. It's starting to get a bit chilly up here, so I've been using a heat lamp and antique heater (that I'm honestly surprised works, and hasn't caught fire yet) to aid the curing process. The passenger side kick (right) has 2 layers of 'glass and the drivers side has 1 layer. I'd planned to put another layer on the passenger side tonight but got home from work late. The temperature is dropping the next couple days, not sure if I'll get anymore 'glass laid down again until Friday/Saturday. But my goal right now is to atleast get them functional this weekend. Bondo/sanding/finishing them off may end up waiting until spring depending on how the weather goes. If they start playing music before winter.....that's good enough for me. And just for shits and giggles.....my ("son's") snake that I bought a few weeks ago He named it Joe Cool......

Actually our hearing becomes less sensitive in the lower frequencies. Starting around 1khz our hearing becomes gradually less sensitive as frequency decreases, which in turn means the lower frequencies are perceived as less loud to the ear for a given SPL. In regards to the stress on the surround; a good design will deal with this issue. You can see how Kicker deals with it simply by looking at the driver and the shape of the surround at the corners. A well designed square sub shouldn't be any less reliable than a round one.

First, different isn't always better (or good). Second, it's pretty obvious you are in waaayyyyyy over your head. You don't have the knowledge to meet your goals. That's understandable. Everyone has to start somewhere. The Mona Lisa wasn't Davinci's first painting. But instead of getting pissy and going ahead with your plans (which won't achieve what you are looking for).....why don't you take a step back, slow down, relax, and let us help you choose a system that will actually meet your goals. That is a far better option than wasting the time and money installing a system that isn't going to achieve your goals and, on top of that, will perform very poorly. You had a good first step and tried to implement the advice you received from your other thread. The problem is your execution still is wrong. Which wouldn't be a big deal and we could still help guide you in the right direction if you weren't in such a damn hurry. But it sounds like you'd rather have a poorly performing system tomorrow instead of a good system a week from now.

In his defense, it sounds like he tried to take the advice.....he is reducing the # of speakers he plans to use. He just didn't formulate a very good plan to follow from there.

You do realize we're trying to help you, right? There are much better options to achieving your goals. But if you would rather go about it entirely the wrong way, good luck with that.

Soooo......what happens if I design an enclosure with no peak? Yeah, what he said.. Hell if I know My point was that the enclosure tuning has more important implications than where the enclosure will "peak" (since, ideally it wouldn't have a peak unless you were intentionally designing it to do so for specific purposes). The other important factors are related to cutoff frequency, cone excursion behavior, damping characteristics, impedance response, etc.

Who told you this was a good idea? You are going to run a 10" driver designed to be a subwoofer up high enough in frequency to mate with a supertweeter? What is the Le of the driver?

This is where we are tempted to respond with "Great! Then keep yourself on those forums that way you're their problem and not ours". I don't see where that question was ever asked. I see random thoughts from the mind of Kryptonite, a question about spiders, then some quotes from Scott @ Evo & Scott @ Fi, followed by your complaining about being broke.....and then finished it off with probably the truest statement your fingers have ever typed. I don't see a question about gap sizes or motor comparisons. So, despite the thread title, the only question I see that you actually posed was in regards to spiders, not motors. You posted some quotes from a discussion about motors, but you didn't actually post a question relating to the motors. You asked a question about spiders. To answer your question with a question.......what in the hell is it that you actually want to know. You ask a question about spiders, but want answers about motors? It sounds like you want someone to design an entire subwoofer for you that will hold up to your abuse. The simple answer is; stop abusing shit. You shouldn't need to stupid-proof the subwoofer. There are obviously larger issues involved which are not related to the subwoofers, the subwoofers are just the victim. But from all of your previous threads it seems you have a sense that you already know everything you need to know about achieving your goals. So you should be able to figure this one out on your own, since most of our suggestions will fall on deaf ears anyways. You complain about our responses; think about your questions, posts and threads.....maybe it'll become a little more clear as to why our responses are what they are. You ask for advice, don't take it and get pissed off, then come back complaining when shit breaks. We give more advice, you don't take it and complain that we're being pricks, you break more shit and then come back complaining about it....and the cycle repeats again. You should realize by now the problem lies with you; not us.

Soooo......what happens if I design an enclosure with no peak?

Will need T/S parameters to assist you. Impossible to help without them.

Mpyre isn't around any more as far as I know. The drivers were essentially just Adire Extremis. There may have been minor changes, I don't recall. But they were basically OEM'd Extremis. If you are simply looking for high excursion 6.5-7" drivers, there are other options: Ascendant Audio Carbons (don't see them on the website, but believe they're available.) CSS SDX7 (currently out of stock) Exodus Audio Anarchy Or you can look for some used Adire Extremis, Mpyre's still pop up in the classifieds or Ebay, used AA Poly's, etc.

I don't believe T/S have been posted, but from the way he talks I wouldn't be surprised if these are much more similar to a standard car audio driver (high'ish Q, medium Fs, moderate sensitivity) than a true pro audio driver.

There are really two viable options. Don't run the 8's and use the 6.5's as midbass as they're intended to be used in the comp set. Run active and replace the 6.5" midbass with an 8" midbass. I wouldn't add the 8" inbetween the 6.5" and subwoofer, that's a headache and a bit of a waste. Obviously there would be advantages to using an 8" midbass such as the potential for increased output and possibly decreased distortion, but there are disadvantages as well such as complicating the system and needing to run active. I run the same components. The 6.5's are pretty good drivers, they have a very deep almost subwoofer like tone to them, which I personally like. Unfortunately I have a terrible resonance due to my installation location so the EQ takes most of that tone away in dealing with that resonance. They have about as much output as you can expect from a 6.5" medium excursion driver. I would suggest you try the comp set as it is and see what you think.

Sounds like a poor implementation to me, and a waste of space and resources. Why do you think you need something to "bridge the gap" between the W7 and the Bravox?

Did you, by any chance, find out which Legatias they were? As you know, they have 5 stages, the higher the stage (level), the better the speaker is. L1, L2, L3... etc Not the way their nomenclature works. The "L" indicates it's part of the Legatia product line. The number following the "L" tells you the diameter of the driver. L1 = 1" tweeter, L3 = 3" midrange, L4 = 4" midrange, so on and so forth. There is no L2 as there's no 2" driver in the Legatia line. They have what they call five "stages", which just means they have five different product lines with each line being progressively better than the previous. The Imagine series is their entry level product (stage 1), Clarus is the mid level line (stage 2), Legatia is their mid-high end line (stage 3), Legatia SE is a little higher end (stage 4), and Legatia Pro is their highest level product (stage 5). The Legatia SE and Pro are designated as such in the model name....L3 is their standard 3" midrange in the Legatia line, L3SE would be a 3" midrange from the Legatia Special Edition line; L1 would be the 1" tweeter from the standard Legatia line, L1Pro would be the 1" tweeter from the Legatia Pro line, etc.

Were you looking to get them reconed back to original specifications, or just get them reconed so that you have a working sub?