George

bump bump crackaz!

well the definatly need some more breaking in thats for sure. they have loosed up some though. do these things like particularly bigger boxes with 1.5kw? or would they do better in a smaller box?

currently have 2 18" bl's off a kx2500.1 @ 1 ohm. birthsheet states ~3kw @ 2 ohms. here is my post copied from ca.com "currently they are sitting in 11.5 cubes or so tuned to about 35hz. output is pretty good but still not quite where i want it to be. seems like with my ammount of power they should be louder, especially for 2 18's. the only thing i can think of is box volume being on the small side. i was told by the FI guys that 5.5-6 cubes would be fine with my power, but im having doubts now. im thinking of sacrificing my rear seats and build the box to take up the whole cargo area but still be at/under the window line. this would give me a chit load more room to work with not to mention also having room to mount my amps more favorable and add batteries. and also i would be able to get a huge ass port as well, compared to my 168" sq port that i have now. is this worth it, or am i chasing ghosts trying to get these things louder?" the thread is here if you want to take a look at it. i have pictures on the third page post #43 if your interested to see how it looks. hopefully the FI guys can chime in as you guys know these subs probably like the back of your hand. edit: chit lol. didnt mention im looking at basically 16-20 cubes for the set.

I'll try and answer. If I'm wrong anyone can feel free to correct me. 1. I cant answer about price differences but you asked about the universal option. IIRC that strictly has to do with the motor. Not the recone. 2. Yes, I believe it is the standard BL recone. well what i meant in the first question is that i have no other options on these bl's. when i bought them i selected cooling and thats it. so thats why i was wondering what the difference in price was between the flatwind coil recone which scott posted, and the regular coil recone which is what im looking for. as far as question 2: ok cool. so why exactly did it seem like scott was suggesting that the regular recone might not fit? i might be wrong im just saying thats how i interpreted the post.

bump

i appreciate the response. got 2 more questions: 1) the only options i have on my BL's is the cooling option. i dont have the flatwind option or the universal or anything else. what is the price difference between them? 2) also i see you said there isnt much difference on the BL's either way and you have a d2 that would fit in the d1 gap regardless. i have a question...is the d2 recone your talking about, a standard BL recone? or is it just a random dual 2 ohm recone that will work with the bl assembly? thanks Scott George

well for the most part i know what it should do in theory. im more so wondering if the bl will do better in a 7-8 cube box versus the 5.5 or so its in now. i was told that this sub was more designed to use motorforce and not excursion to get loud (much like the mt's) and therefor e do great in smaller boxes. thats what confused me.

they are very busy bro. they will help you out, but they have to see the thread first. give them some time bro. sometimes it takes like a week for them to catch a thread.

bump...

depending on what group size will fit. deka intimidator AGM battery: group 34(or for side terminals 78): $109.77 + shipping group 31: 143.07 + shipping from Remybattery website. these batteries are underrated as well supposedly.

whoa. interesting chit right there. one quick question though (dont mean to jack this thread). what do you mean by the whole time factor and memory?

your misunderstanding me lol edit: just caught your edit. yes its confusing. thats why i went back to put quotes around underpowering . but IMO thats why people who are new to this say "i sent 500w to a 1000w sub and killed it. piece of chit cant even take 500w".

you can kill a speaker by "underpowering" it.... but its not because of underpowering per say...its because of someone underpowering the sub and expecting more then turning up the gain to compensate...then poof. underpowering leads to clipping by the user i think thats thats what he was getting at...if he wasnt, then id like to know how he happens to keep his sub running @ its rated impedance through every freq it plays...because im sure all competitors would like to know how to get rid of impedance rise....

seems like an amp issue. like fi car audio says, if a sub cuts out, it wont come back lol

i dont remember right now but i believe i was using a -3db 1000hz test tone (might have used a -6 at one time or another). using a dmm i set the gains up to 30v (which gives you roughly 300w). of course the speakers arent getting 300w, but thats where the gain is set. birthsheet claimed 300w @ 4 ohms. HPF = 80hz with a 12-18db slope using my eclipse cd5000. ive used my amps hpf too but currently im using the HU because its easier to adjust to my liking instead of crawling around my seats to get to the amp.

have it bench tested. you can do the whole dmm and ammeter thing but the problem with that is that you have no way to factor in power factor. and @ 4 ohm your calculations will be off from a TRUE wattage reading. not to mention it will be hard to run through a chit ton of freq to find where you get your lowest load to even start trying to calculate wattage. best thing is to send it somewhere to have it bench tested. IMO however its pointless as my bostons got louder off the RF 150 than they did off the orion 8002 or the mbquart, both rated @ roughly 300w@3 ohms. so to me its obvious they are on par with the birthsheets or at least very close...and like denim said, for 200 bucks?! you gotta be chitting me, good ass deal

^^^^ learn something new everyday. cool chit there neonrider...and yet somewhat depressing. to think if there was a way to run speakers at 100% efficiency...there would be no need to run alternators bigger than stock, because you would only need 1-5w amps lol. either way. i still stand by the birthsheets as being a fair way of comparing amps if they are honest. even if i get only 1 watt max and im comparing the RF amp to the orion and mbquart amp. if the RF amp was really putting out the 70w or whatever it says its rated at (compared to the other amps), then it would correlate to a specific value under 1w. and if the orion and mbquart amps were run, under indenticle conditions, its safe to assume they would correlate to a higher value thats still under 1w, still making them louder. does that make sense? im having a hard time trying to explain it with a post lol. oh BTW can someone answer me this: if it takes a doubling of power to get a 3db change in output, and the human ear wont really notice too much of a change below that, how come turning up the cd player 1 notch makes a noticeable difference in output? im sure your not doubling the power and getting a 3db increase. this question is bothering me lol

i believe the birthsheets. i had an mbquart amp rated 200w @ 4 ohms and 400w @ 2 ohms on my boston pro60's my rf punch 150 25 to blah blah blah is rated @ 300w @ 4 ohms on the same pro 60's the RF amp makes the bostons louder. IF the mb quart rating is a true wattage rating, then i believe the RF's birthsheets are acurate and honest. edit: forgot to add. we also used a friends older orion 8002 rated @ 200w @ 4 ohms and 400w @ 2 ohms....my RF was still louder. so like i said im gonna have to say i believe these birthsheets. Interesting. Perhaps a bit of a placebo affect. You do realize that over time a human is able to resolve no better than a 3dB difference in sound volume? To get that 3dB you need to have double the power. So in other words for you to actually notice a difference you would need to double your power and I guarantee that those RF amps aren't putting out 2x what the other 2 amps you compared them to are. The other option of course is there is a sonic difference between them that caused you to perceive a volume change or perhaps you didn't gain match them very fairly. Either way I am skeptical of a test of back to back amps like that. As for the 25 to life amps, sure they may or may not reach the birthsheet but unless you are chasing 10ths on a meter they will be damn close enough. gain was set using a dmm with all amps. and originally the RA2400 was set with an ocillioscope. and since the ratings were the same i basically matched the gains exactly to the same point (talking about the mb quart and orion amp) then the mb took a chit so i got store credit and picked up the RF. it COULD be a placebo, no doubt. however its not so much thats its louder at the same level, its more so that i can turn it up more notches without getting clipping in the woofers which i couldnt do with the other amps. so since i set the gains to 300w @ 3 ohms on the RF as well ( to match the orion and the mbquart, so that i could get a comparison that was fair) i noticed i could turn it up louder. i understand the whole needing double power to see a theoretical 3db increase (which is suppose to be on the verge of being perceivable to the human ear). but people can notice 1 notch up in volume on the cd player, which im sure isnt a doubling of power, but its still perceivable. so IMO the RF gave me more headroom, which in turn tells me the birthsheets should be accurate (or close to) aneonrider: im gonna doubt that. im sure im getting more than a watt of energy, but of course i cant prove it. i realize a ton of power is converted to heat, but im having doubts that its going to be 1 watt my speakers are seeing. id venture to say its in the 30w range (depending on the dynamic portion of the song its playing), but of course, im no scientist in this field though so i couldn't prove or disprove you or I. even so, im still going to believe the birthsheets. i get people always saying "birthsheets are worthless" etc etc. however, IF the birthsheets are honest and accurate i believe they an awesome item. its all going to be relative in the long run anyways. the extra 300 watts over your rated 2500 watt amplifier isnt going to make a noticible difference to the ear, however it still lets you know that if you putt one 2500w amp against that 2800w birthsheet amp, in identicle conditions its safe to assume the 2800w amp will outperform the 2500w amp by 300w. im having a very hard time trying to explain it, but hope i got my point of view on the issue across. later George

RA2400 and RA4200 amp 1 does 2 x 400w @ 2 ohms amp 2 does 4 x 200w @ 2 ohms hence the model #'s. btw the mb amp i was talkin about was the RA2400 and it was just as loud as my buddy's older orion 8002 (before they sold out)

i believe the birthsheets. i had an mbquart amp rated 200w @ 4 ohms and 400w @ 2 ohms on my boston pro60's my rf punch 150 25 to blah blah blah is rated @ 300w @ 4 ohms on the same pro 60's the RF amp makes the bostons louder. IF the mb quart rating is a true wattage rating, then i believe the RF's birthsheets are acurate and honest. edit: forgot to add. we also used a friends older orion 8002 rated @ 200w @ 4 ohms and 400w @ 2 ohms....my RF was still louder. so like i said im gonna have to say i believe these birthsheets.

will do. i love these things. great product. as far as sq goes, i didnt mention for people to keep in mind...sq is subjective and highly dependent on the enclosure. so what might not sound audiophile quality sq-wise doesnt mean its necessarily the woofers.

2 18" bl's in 11.8 cubes @ 35 hz: sq: sq is not the best, but certainly not even close to the worst. you have to remember i have owned 2 different gen magnums, and have listened to my friends xxx pretty extensively. the average user will be satisfied with the sq. the audiophile probably will not...but these woofers weren't designed to be the upper echelon for sq anyways, so im not really taking anything away from these woofers. spl: pretty **** good if you ask me. are being ran off a kx2500.1 with a birthsheet of 2.9kw @ 2 ohms. wired @ 1 ohms with gains set to give roughly 3k. the certainly punch pretty good. i have had to drill my rear hatch glass hinges and put bolts through them because they restripped the threading much like my old sx's did. **** hinges are a POS from the factory so adding a relatively large system wont help fellow post 1998 explorer owners. i haven't listened to my friends xxx in a while and thought that these were not that much louder than his 1 15" xxx, especially since i couldnt turn it up all the way due to my amplifier issue. well after listening to his xxx both in his car and then in my car in place of my bl's and squaring away my amp issue...i heard what i expected and should hear with the huge advantage of cone area and extra power: a slaughter. power handling: pretty **** good. they defiantly seem like they can take more than what im dishing out though. the move a good bit, but are not maxed out. i do have a decent box rise as well though, so please, lets not all say "oh chit these guys can take 1500w and barley move" which may or may not be the case. i mean they might, but people need to factor in what wattage their subs are TRULY seeing before making assumptions. id say an amp rated at a good 3.2kw or so per pair would be a good bet for most people as most will have a 200-250%+ impedance rise. overall these woofers IMO are a steal for the price you can get them. they remind me of RE brand woofers before the price increase. main reason i went with FI was just due to the man associated with both companies, Scott. i trusted him after experiencing what RE was all about, and am more than happy. to FI: just to let you know my friend listened to my subs in his explorer, off not too much power and guess what...he was so happy with them, he decided to get a pair of 18" bl's himself! so if you see an order that was processed for 2 18" bl's with cooling, it was my buddy lol!

as much as i dont want to admit it...yes they do rated power and yes they are cheap as hell. mine does 300 @ 4 ohms it was my dirty little secret in hopes that i would have enough cash to buy another one down the road, but alas the secret it out.

there was a thread about this a while ago. im sure you want a direct answer from scott but ill give my info anyways. in that thread scott was asked about his pricing and if he was planning to go mainstream like RE did. he said pricing is stable and he has no plans of going mainstream.

do you drive a bus or some chit? jesus, 17 cubes and it looks tiny in that car. i thought they were 15's lol