jlw*22
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Everything posted by jlw*22
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I'd also like to add that the size only matters when you are looking at the fit. The drivers parameters only matter when you are picking the sonic signature and output. They both have to be decided together in the end for you to make the "right" choice. Right choice can only be your opinion and that means the guy down the road will disagree because he wants you to have his ideal setup. I have asked in this forum about the LOUD SOUND QUALITY drivers that I have never heard and I go multiple answers ( and I am thankful). It gives me some faith that the list is of real fans of the quality of the design. They can't tell me what sub will really suit me and my vehicle cause they don't really know what I want. But the endorsement of these SSA products has me leaning in favor of them because they appear to fit my taste. Hopefully my financial situation will redeem and I will be slamming to the tune of a single 15" XCON soon. Until then I'm stuck listening to some old HPO 10's that are muddy and blah (they are in the local shop's choice enclosure). I would hope the fella's at SSA will steer me right when I go for that big mutha F****** sub that they got, and I will have an optimal enclosure for what I seek. So why not everyone just do what I say : ) Cause I'm right and wrong all the time, I guarantee it!
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I'd hesitate to say any sub size is louder than another. This again goes back to the design of the speaker and the box she drives from. Also the environment its being used in. I can say that I have seen many a single driver around here louder than multiple driver setups. Problems with that statement though is that it was louder in one-half of an octave where it was creamed in the rest. It really can't be said, IMO, that a size dominates in any department due to the multitude of variables. When I purchase subs I look for the puzzle pieces that fit my desires and not the boomer guy down the road. One mans' trash is another mans' treasure sort of thing I think. Would you say a trio of Wal-Mart brand 10's were louder than a single Kicker Comp VR 15. I think not. Out of the same series of woofer say 3 Comp VR 10's vs a single Comp VR 15 (given your using them in an appropriate enclosure tailored to the design of the sub itself (manufacturer's specs for the box in other words) and not exceeding the subs limits) I would think the amount of air you are moving would be greater with the 10's but the 15 would respond with a slight edge in the 20hz region. You'd have to mic the thing in so many places to prove it but I'd venture to say it would be true. If you bought a sub that was not designed to go low, I dont care what enclosure you do, the sub won't go low and play it loud enough to justify the sacrifices you have made to get there. Thats why there are so many different drivers on this market. Or maybe not who knows what we will have tomorrow. Maybe fans that blow through holes and the blades tilt for the different frequencies.
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I understand that 1 parameter can't control the whole show but, as I was saying in the example the manufacturer's using the same motor and suspension etc, etc. That would mean that the only thing left is the size of the frame and cone that would be changed. If this is the truth in this scenario (and by the looks of the majority of woofers out there, it appears this is common), that would mean they are inherently similar in a majority of the parameters wouldn't it. Would that make my theory look a little more plausible. To show the difference you can look at proprietary drivers like the W7, notice each drivers built in scale and the magnets go with this. Is this just a coincidence? I would think for a certain type of sonic signature people are looking for (each one of us different) you would have to figure if you didn't like the 10W7, you probably wouldn't like the 13W7 either for the same reason. In the case of using the same motors, if you want more low you get more Sd and if you want more output you go for more drivers, in general, if you like the sonic signature of your current driver. I have found most people around my area think they are getting louder when the truth is they just start using the ultra low frequencies for the first time and they can feel it more. Again I am not absolutely positive but it would appear to my stubborn head that this is true. Thanks again for this most compelling discussion.
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Wanted : a good LOUD SOUND QUALITY driver.
jlw*22 replied to jlw*22's topic in Subwoofers / Speakers
I would consider a larger amp in the future if you think my amp will give sufficient output for the meantime. Not needing crushing output right away or anything. Thx again. -
Wanted : a good LOUD SOUND QUALITY driver.
jlw*22 replied to jlw*22's topic in Subwoofers / Speakers
I was just looking at the SSA XCON's, I know they are just above my limit but maybe they would be worth the small wait for. Anyone know what kind of a jump we are talking about in the SQ and/or output with these from the Icon's. Staying single 15" of course. Thanks again. -
I might be off here but I thought what the hell. Is it possible that the reason people see 10's as the better choice is that manufacturer's tend to build 10's first and then move up and down in size. I know that not all do this but in general maybe. And in most cases the motor design is the same throughout. That includes the magnet size. If that is the case, wouldn't this mean that the bl force would then be inherently lower per sq inch of cone on the larger coned drivers? I have always wondered if this could be the reason for this belief in the general community of listeners that have this fast bass belief. If the 15 and the 10 are using the same level of bl then the true control would show better in the 10 and that would make it have the higher performance with those transitions in bass notes. Anyone know for sure if that is a correct assumption? Regardless I have always loved this type of discussion because this is when an engineer can really step back and pull out all the stops in the future developments with outside thoughts in mind. Keep this kind of talk going or I won't have anything good to do through this slow economy and long nights.
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Wanted : a good LOUD SOUND QUALITY driver.
jlw*22 replied to jlw*22's topic in Subwoofers / Speakers
First off thanks for all he input. Second, I have to say living in the sticks is awful. I have not heard any of these subs and some I have never even heard of the brand. This brings my next question. Who or where is selling the AA Havocs cause I of course found the site but have had no luck finding some one that sells 'em or do they sell direct. If they fit the budget I must say they look tempting. I am curious as to the low frequency (say 20-30hz range) is like on any of the subs suggested. I know that sounds like alot to ask for in a post but as I say I can't audition any of them so I am hoping I make the right choice first. Again thanks and take care of yo mamma's tomorrow. If you forgot. Also thx for the offer Matt but I have the amp to start and I want a new 15. Warranties make me warm and fuzzy. -
I wanted to get some input on components as I have had little luck with getting the goods. I have limited car audio dealerships near me and they all seem to deal about 6 manufacturers and not all that great. The best I hear around here tends to be the cheaper JL VR series. Thats not saying much I'm sure, so any suggestions for someone who cant ear them. I like them to be linear, meaning not bright in the highs and not flat in the mid bass region. And worst of all they have to be competent for my next attempt at an LSQ vehicle which will be most likely a trio of Fi SSD 15's powered by a SunDown Saz-3000D at 1.33 ohms ( I'm banking on 2250 - 2500 watts there.) I am expecting to have to run at least 2 sets on each door of the Suburban. Power for the components unknown until I decide on the components themselves. Thx to all whom replies.
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Thats a beauty. Ported enclosure with some breathing room. You shall have bassgasms.
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Hmm, you say you want some thump but not necessarily alot louder. The kick typically comes form subs that can handle them low lows (lower fs) and that comes with tight suspension ( high Vas). Take some looks at the specs. Your M Classes don't have much do they. Your sub is actually suited for vented applications. I would recommend you cruise the specs of many of the trusted manufactures for specs that compile those specs with longer Xmax and I think you can find something that fits your taste and your limited space. Target Fs should be mid to upper 20's and your Vas over 2.5 cu. ft for a 10. Of course this also would be nice with over the .55" of excursion you have with those M-Class 10's now beating in your ride. Might I mention a company I have recently stumbled on called Elemental Designs. The Ov series might be something of interest for you and they aren't too expensive. I have tested the 13Ov.2 with great results. Hope this can help.
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I guess I will have to continue to disagree. First off no artists records in flat or there could be no distinction in the levels of sound. But they do record at levels below 0 db. It would be impossible otherwise to prevent clipping if they didn't. Thats why I tune with 0 db recorded tones so that I have the same sound stage (ceiling if you will) on my system. Why would you want to take an artists recording and change it? My logic is that if an artists records a track and he is playing his guitar at -1db and the drummer is tapping his cymbal to the tune of -10db, I would want my stereo to do that too. If you dont have a truly flat in car response then you can never achieve that. Im not saying that every song will sound flat, thats all in the recording. Maybe Its all in how you look at it but picture this. You have a SACD and you listen to your favorite band. You find some tickets to a small performance of theirs in an ampitheatre thats built for music and go. They sound totally different to you there. Lets say in this instance they actually tuned their equipment to the studio standards (granted this could be near impossible but bear with me). Now do you go home and say they played horribly or do you just chalk it up to your ear playing tricks. IMO, if you play a sine sweep recorded at 0 db and you hear pitching and some dead spots, you got some serious problems. Like I said before, all of us have our styles and attaining the equipment is all we have as challenges. This isn't really an issue that comes up for me when I do enclosures for people. I let them listen to music they listen to and I calculate some designs and let them hear them. They chose what sounds good to them and I am satisfied when they are grinning. Thats what we are all seeking in the end. Happy audacious days to you all.
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I find it interesting that people want there stereo to dictate what the music sounds like. I prefer the artist to make the adjustments not me. So flat don't mean that its all the same it just means that you are getting as close a replication of the artists rendition of the music as can be possible. That way if they intend on a strong bass guitar solo thats what you get. And if the hit the hi-hat light you hear it light. Thats what a flat response is for. It makes it as if you were sitting next to the guy with the mixer board hearing the final product. I hope that makes it easier to understand why I say flat is the best. Of course in setting such a system up you would have to us a 0 db signal of some kind capable of hitting all audible frequencies to tune it but it can be done.
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This is a little bit off subject but it merits some attention with this subject. Has anyone every metered their system in all octaves of their system to see how linear it was through all bands (including up to 18khz and the likes). I would be interested in seing how far off some systems are and what people are actually hearing in that regard.
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Yes, tune by turning down the lows. I see what you are saying but in a musical installation I rarely see that problem. Of course it all depends on who is listening and what is being played. I always buy equipment that exceeds my needs. That grants me the luxury of longer life of the system. I have just 2 Memphis HPO 10d4's tuned at 32 hz and they are quite linear for the money. Not to mention they are being feed by Memphis' 1100 watt distortion frenzy amp. If you like you bombs over the music then by all means tune higher but I like my music natural. Its all in your preference. And Thanks Dave
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Bear with me this is my first post so.....Please be gentle. I have been designing enclosures for 11 years now. The question posted here is somewhat loose. What matters in the design of an enclosure is strictly based on the subs suspension and electro-magnetic capabilities. If you have a sub that has a tight suspension and low Fs, you typically do better sealed. How big the box becomes a factor when you decide you want a specific output curve. Low frequencies benefit from the larger and smaller beef your higher range. Most designers go for maximally flat for everyday listeners and this will give you true to the music sound. If your not sure you can always buy an enclosure program and play with the numbers. I prefer tuning vented enclosures down to the high 20's low 30's and using signal processing to help the higher end as you will find your driver is not required to work as hard in them ranges. Thats my two cents.