dem beats

This is why I want to go. Here in MN it is so close to a need for us to hunt to keep the populations in check..

The craziest thing about the .300Wsm is in measured tables, it seems to general less recoil than an .300wm pushing the same projectile at the same speed. Even in a lighter gun. That astonishes me. But yes any of the magnums are snappy fuckers. I really thought I was sold on a .300WSM or WM.... but the cost of reloading those with good brass is so close to the .338 LM why not go balls deep? I would have to see if that is still the case, but it really shocked me. Chuck Hawkes wrote a really cool article about how the 7mm and up projectiles all need to be pushed so hard and the net result is usually a less than 10% change in point blank distances. Not that point blank is everything, and of course it is generally accepted that a larger wound channel is exponentially more valuable than hydrostatic damage etc etc. So for larger animals it is usualy considered more "humane" to use a larger caliber fired with more powder to penitrate deeper. But ultimately shot placement is the most valuable and then wound. Shooting an animal where the round could take more than a second and a half to arrive is dicey to me anyway. Some hunters know they can do it and even farther. I am just not confident.

When I started shooting I thought... hell why would I need anything other than a .308 semi auto. It will do everything. It does everything... kind of. And nothing amazingly well. I got what I wanted. I just didnt know what I wanted.

I loved my 22.250. While it is susceptible to windage issues at a distance, it was flat, fast, super accurate and cheap on the reload. Recoil is zero. I could lay a shot in a woodchuck's eye from 250 yards. Great fuckin round. For my big game, I love my .270WSM Tikka T3 hunter. Super flat, super fast, great knock down power... but it will wear on your shoulder pretty quickly. My .300WSM is even more fatiguing. .270short magnum. Yikes. I love sako/tika. They come out of the box feeling solid don't they? .300wm or wsm have been on my list too... but after doing the math, the cost savings on loading from a .338 is only 5-15%. And none of the e-peen. Make no mistake my desire for a magnum is just the same as my desire to play with big boobs, and why I have a crotch rocket that will take me to 165. Not good reasons, but it is what it is.

I bet a .338LM in a heavyish gun with a really efficient brake or silencer would be just fine to shoot. Especially with a little comfort pad on the stock or a shooters shirt pillow thingy. The only gun that makes me feel uncomfortable is my Nova. My winmaster 12 is like a joy to shoot in comparison as it has a nice rubber pad on the folding butt. The nova is definitely more.... "tacticool".... but even reduced recoil loads put a stank on my shoulder if I have it just slightly off. The room mates 7mm mag is a stinger too, but it is a light hunting gun with no brake. I got target fever last time I shot it and got kissed because I couldn't get my eye in the relief without creeping super close. I would imaging 4-5 shots on the shoulder and I would want to be done.

Why not get a suppressor if the recoil is that bad? I mean my .308 really doesn't have much kick, and that's with a light stock. Coupled with a tactical type stock + suppressor it would be pretty damn near a 22. Though if your not planning on shooting out incredibly far then the 338 would be sort of a waste. Plus ammo would be cheaper. I wouldn't mind building up a 22 for the sake of ammo cost. :P/> I actually hate shooting 22lr. But I have never been able to shoot a fine 22 rifle. Someone my size does not easily handle the average 22. They design most for smaller people. A really well made one will run the cost of a serious centerfire gun. And I am going to say something completely against the grain. Even with the good ammo, 22 has sooooo many failures to fire, and it is not as consistent as even .223 so I think it isn't such a great round to "train" on. Maybe for mechanics, trigger control, etc it can help show you patterns... but with how often I see random 22 rounds just go off into space for no obvious reason, it doesn't add up to amazing training to me. Shooting spent shotgun shells from a heavy bbl ruger is a shit load of fun though. Cans are fun when you are too tired for shells. So even if I could get glass and a gun for less than 1000 in 22, I could have spent all that on boolits for a caliber much more fun and practical to shoot.

In MN we cannot own silencers. It is even dubious at best, with an FFL and an ammunition mfg license. R2 could turn one in a new york minuite and pay the $200 tax for any caliber. .50 bmg is just a 30-06 on steroids.... just scale up accordingly. ;-) We can purchase, own, and fire explosives here(again after the $200 per boom boom tax).... but not cans.... idiots.

The subtle changes you can make are amazing. I am going to go back and play on vetran..... but only with that super through the wall sniper rifle. ;-D Zombie mode is a riot too!

R2 have you turned on BLOPS2? I just started replaying the story for some achievements. What a hoot. All this shootin talk makes me feel the need to go splatter some more digital insurgent brains.

...normal MN winter. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

That is why that damn Barrett semi auto is so well loved. The system really makes use of the excess energy. I have heard from guys who have been lucky/rich enough to sholt it that becausr the recoil is stretched out over such a long period of time and so much is soaked up with the brake and springs it has a smaller perceived jolt than 300win mag and similar. It "pushes" rather than punches the shoulder. The concussion from the brake is brutal though from what I understand. It disrupts everything for several yards. The main reason I don't want a 338 is just because of recoil. The cost if you load yourself is not insane as some might have you think when comparing to other match ammo. In magnum caliber that is. But the 6mm boolits can get near the same trajectory (sub 1000 yards)as the big .338 with a fraction of the powder and with way less shoulder beating.

Having super low recoil is so appealing. Keeps from developing a flinch.

For sure!

Vette with a hitch, WTF.

Do you love it???

I need to read more but the .260, 6.5CM, and that oddball AI .284 or whatever it is all hit harder at long range than a .308 and have a much higher BC in general. All with less recoil.

I am really really thinking about a .260 or similar..... I have this horrible itch to scratch in the form of .338LM...... It just makes no logical sense to me.

I was just thinking about the +500 yard shooting. The best thing about .308 Stefan is that it is SO popular I bet you coul find someone with exactly your set up and use their dope to get within 5-10% of the right drop. I remember reading a general dope from a barrel mfg who had dope for a bajillion lengths of barrels and projectiles. .308 being so popular someone may have posted the same entire system(glass, receiver, stock, bbl...etc etc etc) you have with your favorite cartridges online. Every rifle is different but I am sure it would get you in the "zone". Snipers and Kanye.

Hmm.... last time I got a catalog they had "athletic" cut shirts. Seriously. I wish I had it so I could tell you what term they used. Check the online page maybe? Narrow waist but still long and roomy. Just without the extra fluff room. I just saw it in the last catalog... weird you mention it.

Tailored is the best. I know Sean got a groupon to indochino, I don't know how it turned out though. I would gladly pay 150 bucks for tailored shirts if I stayed the same size for more than a few months. And of course it was quality. I want work shirts, not dress shirts though. I need something that looks decent, but 100% cotton so I don't melt it and durable. Oh I completely missed that. I love everything from Duluth trading company that I have purchased. Harder wearing T shirts I have ever owned. And long enough for me.

I definitely want to switch to meters since I got mil not moa, but like you said my dope sheet makes everything a cake walk. The trick is to just forget meters and yard and think about it all in angles and algorithms. Then skip the distance part and extrapolate right to clicks(or dots if you can hold over when your scope is true or if you have FFP)Much more useful in the long run. But like we talked about the DOPE is the real key. Learning the math is truely only useful if you are putting together a new system and trying to make new DOPE sheets. Etc etc. Or working with wind. And wind or other environmental changes are probably bigger factors. If you are popping a target at 1000 yards, for example, you could have 2 or 3 very different wind speeds. To further complicate it, the wind for the last half will have more effect than the first half so it would weight your calculations more because the boolit will spend more time traveling the second half of its trip than the first. So more time for wind to act upon it. So even if you do perfect math and have a kestral type device to check wind speed you could still be fucked as it will only be accurate for the wind speed and angle of attack on the projectile at the muzzle. Not 500 yards down. The clicks are 1/10th mil for elevation and wind right? And is your reticle true on max power or min? No matter what I am envious of your ability to just travel a short distance and have such looooooong shooting available to you. I have been bench racing and staring at a really expensive peice of glass for a looooong time.

Tailored is the best. I know Sean got a groupon to indochino, I don't know how it turned out though. I would gladly pay 150 bucks for tailored shirts if I stayed the same size for more than a few months. And of course it was quality.

Yards are still ok to measure by.... but if you can I would learn meters too. Makes shit easy peasy. At the end of the damn day though your dope sheet is worth a all the calculation in the world. I mean think.... processors today even use look up tables for repetitive long math even with their insane speed and parallel processing.

Razor HD FTMFW. I want to come down there and shoot with you some day. AZ is sucha good place for it. Do it. :)/> This is from this weekend: There's an open section downrange with two black blobs (300y). Then up the side of the big hill behind that is 500y. Even got to mark everything out in 100y increments with marking tape. I still need to make the transition to using meters, but everyone else using yards isn't helping. :P/> Meh. Is your scope Mils or MOA? You did get 1st focal plane too right?