mjmarovi

tinsels are only change I've seen since I first ran a Q, that was just over about two and a half years ago.

barely enough width to even fit the subs on one faceplate. did you get the bp power option or no? they work a lot better sealed without the bp power.

this really should be a commercial or on the intro page to fi's site, only thing is it's ascendant woofers. oh and yes, I know the system isn't the loudest out there but the way the t-shirt happened to stay there is badass

8 cubes internal? ok, I would do a higher tune, like 35hz. that way your port will be short and take up less box volume, and no point in tuning low when box isn't large enough for woofers to have proper response to lower tones anyway. also go on the lower side of port area, like 12-13 sq. in. of port per cube as opposed to 15-16. doing these things will help you get the max out of your box. really just trying to help, and I'm assuming you went with BL's because of price, and after reading some responses you felt like they would still work even if not optimal choice. I understand, just allow some help with the box and you will still be happy. Bigjohn, if i'm not mistaken were you not hitting 145's with your BL's? I noticed a vid recently on youtube of you hitting 143's... sorry for thread jack, was j/w

BL motor is actually a shade stronger... Just a fyi. That's What I Was Thinking, The Nightshade Is Similar To The BL In Their Lineup. Don't Know How He Figured That It Was Similar To A BTL. (Just Like When Some People Thought The XCON Was A BTL Equivalent.) Nick, you are right, correct wording is higher motor force, or BL. I still stand by the NS being used more in similar applications as the BTL, not the BL. That is not just my own opinion. There was much discussion of this on the Sundown forums when the woofer was first released.

not my vid, and the build can be found on the ascendant audio forum. I just saw the vid on youtube and had to post it.

yeh if anything from what I've seen in the past, and what Jacob has told me, NS do better in smaller enclosures, and Fi woofers seem to do better in well almost the larger the better. I don't see where OP put anything about not having space, how much space do you have to work with willie?

looking at it from a simpler POV, not to disrupt the debate going, but amplifiers generally speaking, will not perform as well at lower ohm loads. the general result is a "dirtier" signal to the woofers. this in turn heats up the coils. amplifiers are less energy efficient, and have to work much harder at lower ohm loads. this stress is passed onto the woofers at well. of course, several guys over at sundown audio have had a lot of success running systems at 1/2 ohm. on a side note: in most cases, amplifiers are not going to produce much more power below 1 ohm. the power ineffiency isn't worth the minimal increase in power. you are better off running a system at 16-18 volts at 1 or 2 ohm then running a standard 14.4v system at .5 ohm. just trying to make a simple statement to the OP. now BKO and Nick can get back to their debate which is quite interesting i must add

what you need to do is figure out how big of a box you want, 2-2.5 cuft would be quite sensitive for that woofer and allow to play much louder per watt. you then design the port needed to tune it to your desired frequency. after that, you take whatever area your port takes up and add it to the 2.5 cuft. then you have your total box volume. if you have 3.7kw, what amps btw? not sure how you get 3.7kw. but that's about the right amount of power for 2 12" BTL's from fi. BTL's are very efficient woofers, and can take a beating for daily use. effiency means that these woofers can get very loud per watt compared to most others. so IMO, if you want something louder to bang the lows, then go ported with higher-end woofers. 5 cuft box after port and displacement for 2 12" BTL's tuned to ~32 hz for daily would be a great setup. if you mostly listen to rap when you are streetbeatin, then even a 34-35hz tune would gain you a little volume.

difference in soundwave movements, resulting in cancellation? same as two different sized drivers....that really makes sense, but running a 12 and a 18 next to each other doesn't damage one another either.

did you post this somewhere else? coulda sworn I replied to the same thread already. I agree with Derrick, lol of course he actually self-tested both, but the NS should be louder and more SPL oriented than the BL. the nightshade fits somewhere between the BTL and BL from fi, but really closer to the BTL. NS will handle way more than 1500 watts rms, its powerhandling is closer to that of the BTL, which is known for taking 3-4kw daily.

Perform similarly? Do you understand T/S parameters and ANY of their effects on a sub? While their goals are similar the buck stops there. They aren't really comparable drivers and surely will not have near identical output across the board. In general it is just as bad of an idea as it is to run a 15" and 18" BTL in the same car. I didn't say I recommended it. And I def. wouldn't use same amp, didn't realize OP was trying to do that. I understand it's not optimal, but what is so bad about running on a different amp in a seperate chamber? and yes, I have a very good understaning of T/S parameters. I understand the motors work very differently on both woofers, but I have yet to see that they perform so much differently. it's not like everyone who was running old BTL had to switch to the new one and just from that gained any sort of reasonable increase in Db's. and they are def. not anymore musical. Yes, as i thought I made clear, performance wouldn't be the same as if both woofers are the same, but if ran by seperate amps in seperate chambers, how will the this hurt the equipment? and what will be the tragic result? I'm really just trying to learn something here, I don't consider myself a "know it all" so teach me!

LOL hey nick, he's the one that asked....we are just giving him the info...experimenting is fun, I, personally, have never unintentionally blown or damaged a speaker. the reason why, is you have to know your system's limits. for example: if you go on a road trip, even a short one, remember you can't bang it full tilt the whole time on the highway, and make sure you turn it down, or off when you start to smell somethin

whoa whoa whoa....shared chamber? I mean really I don't see why it would matter, M5 I don't doubt you though, I know you know your stuff, but I have seen setups with with completely different woofers sharing same enclosure, even same amp, which I wouldn't really suggest doing, but it did work. and in this case, they really do perform quite closely, newer version just has a different approach at motor stability with the magnet. since it is a high-powered system and there is a lot of pressure in the enclosure, I would recommend seperate chambers for the woofers, and seperate amp for each, but I other than that should work just great.

the nightshade can handle 3kws rms. it's really made along similar lines with the BTL series from fi, not the BL. with the 2000d, excellent amp BTW, the nightshade or BTL would be a great match. IMO, if anything the Nightshade would make for a better daily driver, perhaps be alittle more musical than the BTL. the BTL IMO def. has the ability to handle more power and get louder. it's a tad more sensitive, and has a stronger motor. that's just how each is designed, BTL more SPL oriented, and Nightshade more musically designed for high power daily driving. of course, I've heard nightshades in systems built purely to get loud, and BTL's in systems for nothing but daily driving.... now that i've confused you, the good news there is no bad choice here, both companies build outstanding products.

how much airspace is the 28hz tuned box? i had a single 15" Q setup before 4.8cubes tuned to 28hz. absolutely crushed the lows, the lower the better. you aren't going to notice 26.5 from 28. now changing airspace/port dimensions, that can change a lot. all tuning does is target a somewhat broad freq. range of where you are mostly going to play your music. 28hz tuning basically allows you to play anything, since the average human ear only picks up from 20hz and above. if you wanna get crazy, and really notice a difference, try building a box closer to 8 cuft after port and displacement, and tune it 24-26 hz, if you want something different, IMO 28 is plenty low. and use 16 sq. in of port per cube, or 8x16= 128 sq. in. of port for a 8cuft box. that will allow you to move more air, and the larger box will make the sub more sensitive to the lower notes.

how much power do you plan putting on it? lol i remember when I build my box for an old system of mine, one 15" Q, 4.8cubes after displacement. while waiting on the 15 q to come in, i threw in a total mobile 12" i bought just as a temp. absolutely slammed in the enclosure even though box was way overkill for it. so the point is....the box should work great, especially if you want to bang the lows, larger box is great, just decreases power handling, lotta people put 2kws on a BL, would have to be very careful trying to do that with that enclosure. what amp do you plan on using with it?

sounds great, what are you tuning it to? i could figure it out, but not sure if those dimensions are outside dimensions, in which thickness matters, or if that's inside usable airspace dimensions. i'm assuming those are outside dimensions, and the 6.24cuft is after port and displacement. even then, only way i can see those dimensions working with that amount of port area, ending up with 6.24cuft after port and displacement, means you must be tuning way low. by my calculations, a port with 92 sq in of area, for example, square port 10x9.2" would have to be 44 in long to take up enough space in the box assuming 1" thick walls, to end you at the 6.24cuft. this would tune your box ~28hz. which if anything, for going on the smaller side of recommended airspace, I would try tuning closer to 33-34hz. now, if your box walls are 1.5" thick, than your design is probably pretty good. need some more info to really clarify though... box wall thinkness? (1" thick MDF, 3/4", two sheets of 3/4", what did you use?) are those dimensions from outside of box or inside? square port? round port? port dimensions? are you trying to hit as low as you can in space provided? what are goals? SPL? daily?

that's pretty impressive. i'd like to see some pics of the enclosure. can't really see how you have it all setup in this vid

not saying it isn't loud, i can tell from video it's loud as hell. don't know what it meters at, and I have seen some pretty loud ass vehicles. frankie rio, steve mick's van, tommy mckinnie, there are some pretty loud ass vehicles out there. Oh BTW: bumpin= moving hair slammin= 150+ loud ass system= 160+ (on music of course)

i'd love to see someone do a build where a single 10 is doing high 140's on 500 watts. i've seen a 10 burp a 152, but it was like 2500 watts, and a burp, not music. that is a good score. i was putting up similar number with two 15" Q's on a crunch 3000d. in a trunk of a 4 door sedan though, with a shotty alty.

this thread dying? thought this woofer was going to be out soon, any updates?

I would def. be stoked for a lanyard. How much of this stuff will be available for AA as well? or even a combo AA/Fi lanyard or t-shirt would be sick.

lol i've seen your builds, you like it loud. only way i see it working is using weaker Q's. I've had Scott beef up Q's to the max for me before, but never asked to tweak low, i'm sure it wouldn't be a problem. I would say go with the SSD since it is a little weaker, but really the Q is a better design for sealed. i'd go without bp power option, and see if the boys at Fi can do anything to lighten the mms. (moving mass of the woofer) that would help it perform better in the smaller enclosure. what happens, not saying you don't know this personally, this post is for all readers, but what happens in a smaller sealed enclosure is there is less air inside the box, or less volume. this is easier to pressurize from the woofer, therefore providing more suspension support to the woofer. the stronger the sub the larger the space needed to perform properly. that's why you look at the treo woofers and yes, you can use less space, but the bl, or force of the motor structure is less. does this make sense? the explanation sounds great in my head, but I hope no one is confused reading...

749 assuming woofer weighs 26.2 lbs