Deadpool

I have a very nice SQ system already installed, but I'm going to work on the sub section to add more output. Intially, the sub/subs will just be in a standard MDF box in the trunk. I need help choosing a sub/subs for this project...that's where you guys come in. Here are some details so hopefully I can help you help me. - Civic Si 4 dr Sedan - SQ is important, but SPL out of the subs is a hair more important for this project. - Front stage = Hybrid Audio Legatia 3 way set - Front stage amps = DLS A4 and A3 - HU/EQ = Alpine IVA-W200/PXA-H701 - Sub amp = DLS A6 (870w@2ohm, 1200w@1ohm) - Sub has to be 12" - Can either be two 12" in a sealed box or one 12" in either a sealed or ported box - Budget is about $600 +/- So a pair of 12s would be getting 600w each, while a single 12 would get 1200w. I'm considering some Fi gear--maybe the Q or SSD lines. Also considering JL products like the 12w3 or a single 12w7, or possibly Image Dynamics IDQ 12s. The single 12w7 might be a problem though since it's a 3 ohm sub. Anyway, some assistance would be greatly appreciated. And the faster the better since I'll be ready to pull the trigger on the buy tomorrow. Thanks!

Thanks!

I'll be running a pair of 12W6v2 in a sealed enclosure. I'm getting Alpine PDX amps for the system because they're great amps, I can get a great deal on them, and most importantly, they're SMALL. I'm not sure whether to run a single PDX 1.1000 to the subs, or run a pair of those amps, one to each sub. So the question is, should I just be running them at 500w each or 1000w each? It's a SQ system, but I guess LSQ is more accurate. The rest of the system (6", 3", 1" in the front, no rear stage) will be run by a pair of 4.150s.

I didn't really mean to be snide, but it really IS irrelevant. What I mean is that the fact that you wouldn't pay that for them doesn't mean I wouldn't...or that I shouldn't--or that anyone else shouldn't. They're great subs. The cost doesn't in any way affect the performance of the speaker. In fact, as long as the money is within budget (and it was well within my budget), the cost is completely irrelevant. The fact that you wouldn't pay that much is also irrelevant because mine are already on the way. I get a great sounding sub that puts out plenty of volume, looks good, and is made by a reputable company that has very good customer support (spoken from firsthand experience). I also get to support a company where one of its employees (Manville Smith) went out of his way to help me when he didn't have to. I think that's a nice added benefit. And there's no doubt...the W6 is a great sub. Even the "JL haters" will usually admit that it's an awesome sub. They just say, "...but you can get a sub that's almost as good, or just as good for less money." Some even say you can get better subs for less money, and that's fine. But once you get up into the level of subs where you can compete in IASCA SQ events, the differences are probably small enough to not be noticeable for most daily use. v/r, 'Pool

Cool. I was thinking it should be, but every now and then, I hear how they are a bit power hungry. Thanks for the input.

Irrelevant.

I agree about the price for sure. I got them for just under $650 for the pair though, so that's not bad at all imo. I think they'll make me smile.

Thanks for the input guys. I ended up getting a pretty good deal on some 12w6v2s. I think those should do the trick nicely. Thanks again!

Scott, Thanks for the reply. After all the indecision I got tired of going back and forth and ended up picking up a couple of 12W6v2s for a pretty decent price. I think I'll be happy with them. Thanks for all the input guys.

My Civic sedan has 4 8" JL 8W4IBs in the rear deck. I'm going to "temporarily" disconnect them and put a standard sealed enclosure in the trunk (facing backwards most likely). I'm going to put a couple of 12" subs in there to add some volume to my normal listening fare: Tool, various rap, Tool, other rock, and maybe some Tool. Thing is, the system is a SQ setup and I don't want to sacrifice much of that. The guys from Buwalda/Hybrid Audio turned me on to the Fi Q series. So here's the setup: HU: Alpine IVA-W200 EQ: Alpine PXA-H701 Mid/Tweet amp: DLS A4 (4 ch) Midbass amp: DLS A3 (2 ch) Sub amp: DLS A6 (870w@2ohm, 1200w@1ohm) The front speakers are all Hybrid Audio. So would a couple of Q 12s work well in this application? The box will be sealed to keep the size to a minimum (Civic's don't have huge trunks). I was thinking a couple of 1 ohm Qs in a series/parallel config should present 1 ohm to the A6 which should feed the Q's 600w each. Yea or nay? Thanks guys!

Yeah, I don't want to change the amp. Can you elaborate a little on your comment? I take it the Q sounds marginally better SQ-wise, but would be underpowered with just 600w each? If so, would a single Q, ported, with the full 1200w be a better option than a pair of Qs or SSDs in a sealed box? What kind of SPL difference would there be between those options? I know 2 12s sealed would be loud enough, generally speaking of course, but I'm not sure how close a single sub in a ported enclosure with twice the power would compare.

Thanks. I think I've settled on either the Fi Q or Fi SSD. Just need to get some solid input about which would be better in my application. Pair of 12s, sealed, 600w each, mostly rock and rap but also some jazz and blues.

LOL damn you! I had just kinda "settled" on the copper core SSRs. So at 600w each, in a sealed enclosure, the Qs vs. the SSRs... Ugh. Shouldn't be so damn hard to make a decision that's not exactly life and death.

Well, the baffle is not easily rebuilt. It couldn't take anything larger than the 8s anyway--the rear deck is pretty small back there and I'm done cutting on it. The front and back waves likley muddle a bit through the rear seat. I might be able to seal it off better. Not easily, but I could probably do it. Still, I probably wouldn't just replace those 8s. I really like the setup as is which is why I really don't want to significantly change it. It's great in many ways, but sometimes I just want quite a bit more SPL than those 8s can put out. Again, I don't want to swap out for other 8s. I'll try putting some kind of baffle between the rear seats and the trunk and see if it helps. Still, I really don't think the 8s will give me the SPL I'm looking for atm. Remember, I'm wanting to put in a box that I can remove later. It'll beef up my SPL a bit. So, no. I don't want to "go away from it" per se. I just want some more SPL for a while without changing anything permanently. But that doesn't mean I want to just throw in some crappy gear. It's still gotta sound good...just louder. Significantly louder.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with either of those. I'll check out that link.

Yeah I do have some concerns about the pressure of the 12/12s on the 8s. Would it be a major issue? If so, and if I really like the 12/12s, I may decide to simply remove the 8s. I could at least do so to see if it makes a big difference. That'd also give a nice open pathway for the sound of the 12s to enter the cabin. I thought about leaving the 8s just for midbass, but don't really want to add another amp. Not sure if your last sentence there was, or could, stand alone, but it brought me back to this question. Would a single Q12 in a well designed and built ported box, and running on 1200w... outperform two SSD or Q 12s in a well designed and built sealed box?

They are likely NOT sealed off as well as they should be due to having fold-down seats. That may well contribute to the problem. Even properly sealed off though, I'm doubt the 8s would give me the SPL I'm looking for right now. These 8s are actually 8 ohm speakers so the four of them get about 200-215w each. Regardless though, I'm not wanting to change that or anything about the install of the 8s. They are great with anything as long as I don't turn them up too loud. I'm just wanting to toss in a well made enclosure with 1 or 2 12s in it. It's gotta sound very good and gotta make my ears tingle a bit. I want to be able to take the 12s out if I'm going on a road trip and/or need the extra trunk space. Then I'll still have the 8s in there. Keep in mind I'll disconnect the 8s when the 12s are running and vice-versa. I've seen suggestions to go with a pair of copper core SSD 12s at my power level (each getting 600w). I could maybe go that route. I could also consider a single ported 12 which could get the whole 1200w. If I do that, I want to ensure that it won't have much less SPL than the pair of 12s. Hard to think that a single 12 would out-SPL a pair of 12s, even ported on twice the power, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I'll be ready to purchase/order tomorrow so keep the input coming please! Thanks!!!

Hmm...I'm not trying to spend a fortune, but I'm also not concerned with the money in this case. A pair of 12s is well within budget. Let's say the budget for the sub/subs is $600. Still, a single ported 12 could be an option I suppose. I'd think there would be some sacrifice in either SPL or SQ going from two 12s to a single 12, no? Any other reasons to go with a single ported 12?

Not at all. In fact, it seems to me the front stage can handle more volume than the 8s. For example, if I have something on with heavy bass notes I can turn the volume on the IVA-W200 up to 22 or 23. At that point, the front stage is crystal clear, but the 8s are at their limits. If I turn it up one more notch I have to fear losing a sub or two...you know how you can just hear it coming? Remember, these are the old school JL 8IB4s. The front stage is Hybrid Audio Legatia 3 way set: 1" tweeter, 3" midrange, and 6" midbass. So... 2x12" subs sealed in the trunk of a Civic Sedan. Amp will be delivering 1200w total, so 600 to each sub. Options on the table right now are: Fi Q JL 12w3 v3 Image Dynamics IDQ 12 I've seen people suggest the SSD 12 with copper core, but don't have enough info on that to put it on the table as an option.

Haha. I know. The 8s are already IB in the rear deck. Whatever subs I end up with will be in a sealed enclosure to keep size down and SQ up. Two 12s to get the SPL up a bit while staying within the requirements. JoeHemi, what would make the copper core SSDs a better choice than the Q?

The 15" isn't really an option, as the trunk isn't all that big and I don't want to lose all my trunk space. The height of the enclosure would be an issue. Also, I'd think two 12s would out perform a 15 anyway, no? Jim, the system sounds excellent, but you can tell when you crank it up that the 8s start to complain a bit before I want to stop turning it up, ya know? Bottom line: sometimes I just want a bit more of a kick in the ass.