I went to a local shop today that was a Clarion dealer looking for the VZ409. When I got there they said that they don't carry that model but could show me a much better Kenwood like he was installing into a Lexus (like I give a crap). Of course the Kenwood deck is twice the price of the clarion. When I explained how much I found the Clarion for ($300 on amazon.com) he shows me a Dual for $330. His knowledge, or lack of, was pitiful and to the point of being funny. He swore the dual was just as good for the money as the clarion because I was basically paying for a dvd player. He spent 10min trying to talk me into the dual and when I asked questions his response most of the time was "well, we just got this unit in and I haven't played with it yet". The final straw was when I asked if they had a TL and he didn't have a clue what it was. Needless to say I gave him a "have a good day" while I tried to hold back the laughter....LMAO!