teoulennon

Long story short - I have a '19 f250 underseat box with 2 10" 2.2ft tuned to 36hz. and am trying to decide on drivers for it. I have a Sundown sa10 in a 1ft box tuned to 35hz - I'm happy with the lows but it drops off in the higher frequencies quick - in songs with a lot of dynamic bass frequencies I can barely hear bass in some parts and other parts it shakes the car, so it feels "uneven" during the song. I'm looking for a setup with loudness but also smoother over a larger frequency range. I've modeled an idq10, jl 10w3 and Sa10. in 1.1ft box tuned to 36hz (below). When I change the idq10 to two drivers and double the volume (2.2ft) the graph doesn't change. Shouldn't the dB go up? I figure that if I want the loudness of 1 sa10 but also a smoother frequency range I could go with 2 idq10's. Am I way off base here? Blue is sa10 Green is idq10 Orange is jl 10w3

I have a 2.05ft box tuned to 36hz for 2 10" drivers. I had 1 sa10 in a 1ft box tuned to 35hz and it's way too peaky for my tastes - shakes the whole car on lows but has hardly any output at higher frequencies, so music sounds "uneven". I'm trying to find a sub that has a smoother frequency response and sq but still gets decent spl. I've graphed 1 of each sub below, in a 1ft box tuned to 36hz (w/ the sa10 for reference). Each is at their recommended rms. I have no idea why the Demon is so off - I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong but I've triple checked all t/s numbers (if someone wants to try and graph that one for me feel free!) I'm limited to a max mounting depth of 6". Thoughts? red = demon black = 10w3 blue = idq10v4 green = sa10

I’m really glad you said that - I sent him an email earlier today asking what the port area of the box was, I was curious how well they were tuned. Now you’ve got me thinking about some 8’s ported rather than 10’s. Just out of curiosity, is it possible to unseal your ports? You aren’t curious what it’d sound like? The reviews of the box seem to be positive overall.

I gotcha. Have you thought about porting them? I was going to try the idq10’s ported w a fox acoustics box for my f250 - 2.04ft tuned to 36hz. Here’s a link to some f150 boxes

What kind of set up do you have your idq's running? And what kind of output are you getting with them now? The single sa10 is my benchmark, and I'm happy with the output of it at the frequency it plays loudest, so if they're as loud/louder I'll consider them a win.

Thanks. Can you elaborate on what you mean by peaky? They look smoother than the sa10 modeled and from what I understand the idq is known to have a pretty smooth frequency response. Any suggestions for other drivers I should look into? being limited to 6" mounting depth and 2.04ft kindof limits my options. Sundown sa10 specs: RE (Ohms) 4.29 7.08 FS (Hz) 35.4 36.6 VAS (L) 10.13 10.66 Qes 0.52 0.54 Qms 5.41 5.30 Qts 0.48 0.49 Le (mH) 3.41 4.71 BL (NA) 20.40 24.82 Mms (Grams) 230 205 Cms (uM/N) 87.8 92.4 Sens (dB @ 1w/1m) 81.0 81.6

I've decided to try a ported enclosure for my sa-10 just for kicks. I'm thinking 1.0ft^3 tuned to around 33hz. I'm not set on 33hz, it's somewhat of a guess as to what may sound good - I'm going for sq more than spl and listen to all genres so I need it to give me the accurate punch of rock as well as the lows in rap. My box is limited to a size of 8"d x 13h x 33"w The sub will pretty much be right up against the rear shelf of the car behind the passenger seats in a porsche 911 so I was thinking it would be better to go with a side firing aeroport over a rectangular port. My box would measure roughly 8"d x 12.5"h x 31"w, making it 1.12ft^3 after sub displacement, this would be subject to change based on the displacement of the aeroport (which I don't know yet). Using PSP's port calculator, with a 4" aeroport, I would need a port length of 25.8" to tune to 33hz. I'm afraid the sub would interfere with a port this long. So, am I on the right track here or just way off base? Can aeroports be configured to be that long?

damn, I thought for sure I had solved all the world's problems with my brilliant design I guess it's time to experiment with a 4" port. If I can't get it to work I'll just have to go with a passive radiator. Thanks for the help guys, I'll be back with results soon enough!

Great, you guys have been a big help! Seeing as how it's more expensive, slightly more complicated, and I'd also have to squeeze a 12" in the box, I'd really like to save pr as a last resort - porting is tricky enough for this newbie Do you think it would be possible to make the box have a side-firing slot port like this? RE audio box calculator - note that I would make the port exit the side, not the bottom as it looks in the pic.. If the port were to be 13" long that would be far enough away from the sub right? Also, with the slot port being 2", it would avoid compression and make the port area 13 which would be adequate right? What do you think?

Sounds like I should try one. I've just spent some time looking for more info on them. I get the basic idea but I can't find any info on how to actually build a box to needed specs or a calculator that can help. Know of any sites that can help?

Wow, what a box! A passive radiator was also suggested to me by a buddy, I'll have to look into them. I'm still not quite sure how or what I would use to make the port/elbows. Ideas?

I'm not quite sure I understand your explanation. Are you saying to measure the outside length of the 90 degree bends then add 4 inches? I came across this measurement formula: (outside + inside) / 2 Is this correct? Any suggestions on what materials to use for the port?

I see. Looks like it's back to doing research calculating port bends. Any thoughts on the best way/method to get the 180 degree bend? I can't picture a precision port and pvc elbow getting along well together.

Thanks Quent, It's good to know I can work with angles, although I would prefer not to. It was also suggested that I use a 3" aeroport. I was told that as long as I stayed around rated power for the sa-10 port noise likely wouldn't be a problem. If I did so, the port would be more like around 14" Thoughts?

Thanks Alton, what a huge help! It looks like this may get more complicated than I would have liked Do you have any other suggestions for ports besides using 90 degree bends? Apparently I could protrude the port from the box a little but only about 3 inches max before getting too close to the side of the car. Whether this would be enough to clear the woofer in the box I'm not sure.

Fantastic guys thanks! I've emailed Fi about getting t/s parameters for the Q w/ the high qts option, we'll see what they say. I've emailed them a question before and never received a response so hopefully they come through this time. Dbsupra: I honestly don't know anything about passive radiators, I'll have to check them out. Thanks for the suggestion.

I currently have 1 sa-10 @ 600rms in a sealed box and am looking to go a little louder. I plan on lowering my amp (massive audio n3) to 1 ohm to get up to 1400rms. I'm debating on whether to get 1 12" fi Q (1500rms) or to just add another sa-10 (600rms each). They will be put in a sealed box (pls don't suggest a ported box, I'm not interested ) Thoughts?

Thanks for the input guys. Jake, do you have any experience with the X? Someone modeled with it and came up with this: "I'd suggest a Fi X with BP option, or a SSA Icon. Both of them should sound better than the Q in a sealed box. Modeling shows that the Q would get louder in the 70+hz region with a lot of power. But the X and Icon will hit the lows better with less power. It's because they're more tailored to sealed boxes. Based on the model I have, the X would give about 3dB more output there, and the Icon would give about 2dB more output given the same power. The X is really a fantastic sub for sealed enclosures. It's maximum output potential is about 1dB less than the Icon, but requires one third less power. It has the same output potential as the Q below 70hz and requires half the power! If it were me, I'd save the money and buy the X with BP option. Ideal enclosure size is 1.5cf or 1.25cf stuffed lightly with polyfill." Thoughts?

The higher frequencies found in rock and some dance music. I'm not talking about midbass. It doesn't do too bad at lower frequencies actually. I also had a 12" sealed that I enjoyed much more.

Scratch the option of 2 fi X's, I've learned that I most likely don't have the space for 2.

What about the new X? I hear they're great in sealed boxes?

Great! I hope I'm giving what you're asking for.. 2 sa-10's 1.0ft^3 sealed Re: 4.29 ohms Fs: 35.4 Hz VAS: 10.13 L Qes: 0.52 Qms: 5.41 Qts: 0.48 Le: 3.41 mH BL: 20.40 NA Mms: 230 g Sens: 81.0 Xmax: 19mm RMS: 600 Watts each (Can go up to 1400rms total) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 fi Q 12" 1.2ft^3 sealed Fs: 33.9hz Re 1.4 ohms/coil Qms: 7.69 Qes: .39 Qts: .37 Mms: 253g Cms 0.87mm/N Sd: 481cm^2 Vas: 28.3 Spl: 86.3dB 1w/1m Bl: 19.65 N/A Xmax: 28mm Rms: 1500w (But I'd be running 1400w) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I'm also interested in the fi X, which I hear is great sealed. I could do 1 or 2 of these, a model of just one and a second model of two would be fantastic if possible :)/>/>/> I'm not sure of the exact preferred size sealed box for these, but the fi recommended is .5ft^3 to 1.5ft^3 1 fi X 12 - limited to a box size of 1.3ft^3 2 fi X 12's - limited to a box size of 1.3ft^3 Fs: 31.6hz Re: 2.8 ohms/coil Qms: 6.51 Qes: .51 Qts: .47 Mms: 181.2g Cms: 0.00mm/N Sd: 480cm^2 Vas: 46.1 Spl: 86.3db 1w/1m Bl: 19.81 N/A Xmax: 20mm Rms: 750 (but I'd be running 700w to one OR 1400w if running two) Thanks

I wish I could Quentin, I'm on a mac and don't have access to a pc

The recommended enclosure size for the Q is .8-1.5ft^3 so pretty small. I would sell the sundown, it wouldn't be too much of a loss. I'm not interested in ported because my enclosure is limited to a size of 1.3ft^3 max and I don't have the time nor the expertise to make a ported box that can sound "just as good as sealed" when it comes to accurate, tight bass you may find in rock music.

By low end do you mean frequencies? I don't consider the Q a low end sub in terms of quality. I've heard nothing but good things about the Q in sealed boxes..more so than the sa actually. Jacob states that 95% of sa buyers go ported. I was originally going to replace the sa with the Q because at certain frequencies the sa had hardly any output (I think it's just the way the sub performs in a sealed box) but I figured just adding another one would solve the problem. I've had the sa about 3 weeks now. I'd love to go with two Q 10's but that would require twice the cost...and power to get the most out of them