sqguy

I agree with the cone area thing, I've been running 4 10s for a long time here and there. It was all I could fit, but I managed 4 12s in this car on about 400wrms. Not quite enough power but it does put out. Can't fit 4 15s, even thought about 8 10s but no amp room then and back to the weight issue again. These infinity sound better than I thought they would, but they really don't get moving that much either. At full tilt they are hitting maybe half of xmax...maybe why they don't sound bad. My system is gone at that point as the high side can't keep up. I don't think big xmax is the way to go IB, but hard to find info on that. That is why I always used as many drivers as I could so each would run easier. This can get fairly loud with them hardly moving at all. I can't find a weight, but they are heavy subs. The car was even without the subs and then was a little low with them, it is just not made to carry weight I guess...typical econo car. The rubber things lift it just a hair, all I wanted to do. It only has 65K on it, and only 125hp with an auto trans. If I could halve the sub weight I'd be happy, this is heavy as a box. Weight is only one reason, I want to try efficient subs anyway unless someone says they will not work and my memory of them is all wrong. I have plenty of amps to try, from 350 to 1kw RMS. Not sure what it will need, I assume less with more efficiency yet it may sound better overpowered (not overdriven). The subs I have looked at usually say half rms for IB, so I am around 100-200rms per sub with most I have found with better efficiency. Most of these amps are class D to help use less power. On the other hand I don't like overly dynamic IB subs a large amp can make. When pushed they seem to top out more, makes that typical IB issue worse. Trying to get an arc audio tripath to try, don't know much about them but seem to be pretty good? I tend to figure an amp has to be pretty trashy to sound bad on subs.

Think of the amp as pushing current out to the speakers just like water out of a garden hose. The resistance of the speaker keeps too much current from frying the amp like a complete short would (0 ohms). Just like the hose the amp will run current against that resistance like a nozzle on a hose keeps water pressure in the hose. If you took the nozzle off your hose the pump would not blow up, but you see what I mean. With less ohms to drive against, the current the amp can produce will be higher (the higher wattage ratings at lower ohms) to the point the amp can not handle the current (below its ohm rating). Some amps can run lower or be setup to do so, but it is important to match them up properly and run the right load. Some amps will protect if too low. More load (ohms) will be easier on your amp, but you will get less volume of sound out of the speakers. A speaker voice coil has "X" ohms, that does not change. How you wire it to your amp and what ohms the speakers you buy have will determine what load the amp sees, and how much wattage it can deliver into it. Speaker efficiency can change how much sound comes out a given ohm speaker, so an 8 ohm driver might sound the same as a 4 ohm driver on the same amp. There are plenty of variables. Most amps do not really double wattage at half ohms, and some do not increase any or a limited amount depending on how it is built. Hope this helps. Also if you wire two 4 ohm speakers in series one after the other, the amp will see both resistances for 8 ohms. If you wire parallel the amp will see 2 ohms, as they are both allowing power to flow through them for less resistance. Once you get the idea of 'flow' it should be easier to understand resistance.

I hate it when I don't get the email for a post. I sure felt it when I put that loaded baffle in, I actually put those rubber bumpers in the springs because if I loaded some stuff in the trunk with people in the car it went way down. It was fun to get into the trunk as well. This 15" driver would weigh less than one of the current 12s. I may suffer a little output with 2 15s, but that would be ok...I'll keep the 12" baffle around. Just need to know it will not be worse SQ-wise....you know, a totally stupid idea. When I ran them before I used 10s, and they had to be crossed over low (50Hz) because they really rolled off but still were fairly nice on 2x75rms. Was thinking the 15 would not roll off so much on the bottom, but I have never used 15s before and not IB of course.

Can anyone recommend the best deal on a card right now? I was going to build a PC again but hit one cheap on auction, has a built in 6150 that can't be great. Need a $50-100 PCI 16 card for it.

Man, can't even match up what they say. This 8800gts looks like a great deal except it is 320mb not 512 but has the gddr3, at $115. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814130082 Not sure I want to go that high though. They say a 512mb 8800gts blows out the 9600gt (is 512mb) that is same $115. I don't know how much the memory affects it. The last game I played on my old PC here is Doom 3 and it worked good for most of it, have Star Wars battlefront and couple of planets kill it but rest plays. But this is an ancient 1700amd with a agp4 slot and I think a radeon 5700 agp8 card. Thanks for the info though, I'll have to look up the XT cards and see...they have some for$ 75 and 60. I'm at about 2006 in games lol, but need to stay ahead of the game a little so it should play anything but the worst new games I would say. And this machine is vista.

Lol, went to bid on a couple on epay and they went same/higher than new ones at newegg.

Been looking, just not up on the numbers right now and wonder if any particular one is better for games. Don't need to play the worst new games perfect, I get games that are older and work my way through them. How about this GeForce 8600GT OC'ed to 620? For <$70 after rebate. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814150229

I always figure a 50wrms/ch amp may clip at 50w, and if your speakers are rated at 50w that is bad. A 75wrms/ch amp should not. Also depends on the amp, I have a 2x40 that works nice and beats some 2x75 I have used. But I like to use lower wattage speakers in general and take the chance as I am careful when I beat them. Most of the time (excluding expensive drivers) they seem to sound better to me. Maybe higher sensitivity? Right now my front comps are rated for way more power than the amp I am using (5ch), sounds ugly when it distorts can't wait to swap amps to something larger.

They don't seem cheap, even used. Wonder if it can work on highs or if its more of a sub amp, which is fine. I read another thing that said they use common boards in some amps but change components (justifying price), for whatever that is worth. I've never seen one before myself. Note the photos show a tripath chipset so it should be a class t, a different type of class D that can run full range. Some say they may not be as clean as a good class AB for mid/highs, some say you can't tell, some say a little better SQ than class D on subs. On the other hand I have an insignia I picked up cheap for a friend, and a guy (a tech) just told me they are good amps for the (retail) price. It is 2x200rms at 4ohms and was new in the box for <50 never used, figure it could run subs anyway. I think they come package with subs and defect subs were returned with this. Its huge and fan cooled, but I'm more into some kind of class D for my subs due to not wanting to upgrade power, and don't hammer it that often in my daily driver anyway so I plan on skidding by on stock 125A. This Arc amp lists 86A at max draw 1 x 1kw@2ohms bridged. I doubt I would run it that low of ohms for now. If it was clean on subs that would work for me.

I can get my hands on a Kar 1000.2t and I just wondered if there were any good, mostly from a SQ perspective but for a daily driver not that fancy. Anyone know if this is a class AB...what apps it would work good for? http://www.realmofexcursion.com/ampguts/Arc_KAR_1000.2T/ I guess a cerwin vega and clarion are the same amp.

I see hertz is part of audiocontrol and audison. I'll keep an eye out thanks for the info. I always turn the sub off and try to make the system sound good by ear first thing in tuning. That will tell you a lot.

Seems to me you would be best off to run about 50Hz and up all in the front if possible, if not then low as you can. I tend to fade the subs higher (try to get the roll off just below the fronts) so they help without being localized, but some don't like that. If you have no bass in the front that does not work. I see the space 8s, where do you get them in US?

I can tell you one thing, you will not find any free veggie oil around here. I talked to a farmer that was going to buy a rig to make it and he said it was suddenly so expensive to buy the oil you had to do bulk to make any money. That was two years ago. People do waste a lot of fuel here. I have seen for years a suburban pull into a parking lot and one person gets out, so maybe gas was too cheap since the government will not control vehicle consumption. The bad part is a large family that actually needs that vehicle can't afford to drive it now. On the other hand you can't afford to insure two vehicles for one person (who can't drive both at once), it is cheaper to burn more gas then have a second car...or used to be. High prices will kill some things like boating and tourism. I'm so amazed and saddened that nothing can be done to help ease this situation today, or was done in preparation. But even if you fake safety inspections on jet planes you can't get fired from the government. Oil is a great cheap fuel, it will be hard to beat it. From what I have read making hydrogen is not an easy task either. I think if we could make a better battery, that would change things.

F1 car ~1333lb (top speed ~250mph, ~950hp) Honda 2008 Civic - 2700lb (top speed ?, 140hp) Ferrari Enzo - 3009lb (top speed 217mph, 660hp) 3009-2769=240lb difference. The real issue with these super high mpg cars is who would drive that thing? They are a slow motorcycle with a closed fairing and an extra tire so it will not fall over. We so smart, Europe has dealt with high fuel costs for decades and we must think they are stupid for getting better mpg with diesels that are usable every day. A project like this is interesting and you will learn some things, but fact is we can't put (or be allowed) vehicles on the road that get better mpg like the rest of the world does. Our government likes it when we burn more fuel or they would change...well change even one thing.

Funny how they talk about everything but the car, so what motor/powertrain is in it??? Lets not talk about how a diesel has better efficiency than gas, electrical line loss, or what is generating the electricity. This part really cracks me up, what 2nd grade moron wrote this drivel: "Top speed for the Aptera will exceed 85 mph and will most likely be limited electronically at 95 mph -- smaller, lightweight cars can't go too fast, especially on highways, because air resistance makes them unstable. If you throw a light paper airplane through the air with a bit too much force, you might get an idea of how easily air can alter its course. The same goes for a lightweight car traveling too fast down the road." That must be why 250mph F1 cars weigh half of what a honda civic coupe does.

I think today the diesel is the way to go. Europe is looking at diesel hybrids that get over 50mpg the current ones get while the idiots here outlaw diesels and give us expensive gas hybrids everyone else laughs at. A diesel will use 1/3 less fuel over its entire lifespan, how can one say that does not help? Autoweek did a road run and the VW got better mpg than the eco car, what a joke. Ethanol seems to hold promise, but we need a way to grow and process it properly and corn is not the way. Yet the liberal media turns around and makes a big joke out of Bush saying we should grow switch grass....those liberal tree hugging pos, when it can provide more ethanol per acre than sugar cane and way, way more than corn while it will grow better in our climate. You can't grow enough corn here for our gas needs, so what are you going to eat then? Just goes to show you what f worthless two faced kinds of people run the media and the government. The government wants it this way, and that is why I will be voting against anyone in there. Here people complain about the 100 billion a year going into Iraq, yet it is fine when the government pukes out 30 billion of our money in one weekend to bail out some broker firm....one that likely runs up oil futures in its trading fun. Thanks but no thanks. I have stuff to do, I hardly drive anywhere maybe one trip a week aside from work. Driving around is like tossing money out the window every mile, at least if I buy something for my house/etc then I have it sitting here. It must suck for kids, when I was young I lived in my car was always going someplace. There are many other points, like why did the government gut CAFE...take big SUVs off it years ago. Everyone knew gas would go up again like in the 80s and it is government's job to figure that in. Why do they outlaw diesels? Why not do anything about the current situation in supply, demand, or trading? Pelosi said she would cut gas prices and not let oil run free like the republicans....yeah right it has been a year plus and gas is more than ever and the only idea she had was to tax them! LOL, and who might pay that tax? Certainly not the oil co get real, it would be you and me just like the taxes already on it. Idiocy pure and simple, so I just figure they do lots of beer and hookers to fill their time since they sure don't work.

Its an element of time. Get a used fender and cut it in you can even use spray can to do it. Take the car and have it painted and blended into the door you repair...or get a door if cheap enough depending on damage and spray the whole side. That is what I do. You have to get car paint on the outside to hold out/look good unless you can do that yourself. If you find a smaller bodyshop and have them do it when they are slow you can get a better deal on paint. Even if you just get the parts and help prepare the car, like removing things and cleaning it well just don't lose anything.

Shallow 8s? I've looked for them and never found them. I need to mount a 4" in front of the 8 in my door but doubt I could. Or buy a 3" and do that....gets to the point that its too much hassle for my daily driver don't have that much time. Sucks. Have some projects on the house to get done, was more fun when all I had to do was swap stereo stuff in my car for kicks now I just want to get it working right.

Contour. Kick panels hardly exist in it either, no place in dash to mount. About the only thing is the mirror cover on door for a tweeter and stock speakers are kind of low in door but fairly large. I think I could fit a 6x9 in there or 8....but no place for mid.

I hear you there, doors are a pain. Some have had good results with something like a peerless 8", a good woofer not a sub. They are not as deep. Too bad nobody seems to make an 8" shallow sub, if it could go higher that might work well in doors. Hope I can pull mine apart soon and measure it out, but first I'm going to try deadening them up with the 5x7 comps. I just can't pull myself away from a stealth install with this or I'd go for it....just too much time I don't have and a little door/screwy door panel that would be tough to make good looking.

Lol, both the cars I have now were bought crashed cheap. I fixed the rollover and had a guy fix the other one that was not that bad, just fender and doors on one side. Was working too many hours when I got that one at an auction. I should look around for another its been a while, but too busy right now.

Lol, they might be lying as they are cheap subs. I have 4 infinity 300rms in there now and 420rms can't even get them going that hard (150 max rms when IB)....and it is loud enough for my use. So why not try them and see if I can run less power? The other issue is 4 of these 12s weigh a ton, the cheap subs weigh less and I would not have to make a new baffle. And it is like $88 for 4 12s shipped, lol. Only the cheap ones are more efficient. They might be different now but I used them long time ago and they were impressive on limited power...I guess it would kind of be a gamble.

Yes, I am seriously considering some 99db subs in my car to replace the 4 12s. I have a little 350rms class d amp I could try. The other day I bought a cheaper but not junk amp for <$40 on ebay. It is a like new return or demo and 2x200rms....amazing. One of my first pounding sub setups in a car ran 75x2 amp on 4 10s, it would move your hair and you could feel it. Another 60x2 amp was rated at 80x2 rms at 2 ohms, it worked best it may have had a subsonic in it.

I keep wondering how this TB shallow 10 would work for midbass http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cf...tnumber=264-862 The chart is nice about 40-300Hz, so it would not play very high. I have heard/worked on multiple size sub setups that worked without crossovers, but I think you need some luck to have it work well and everyone will laugh at you for not being proper. The other issue is yet another amp and crossovers to do that with but sure sounds like fun. My 4 12s IB work great under ~40Hz, I have turned the crossover higher and then run the parametric to boost lows. It sounded nice up to maybe 80Hz, pretty flat to ear with tight and sub bass. But my mids are weak so with one parametric I run it to boost mids instead at maybe 60 and up. I think the best bass setups I ever ran were 10" subs and 6x9, they can blend well. The 10s can have a hard time around 30hz and under. The crossover slope and response of the subs can make a big difference; if they run up under the mids it can work great...you think it is in front. No doubt the issue is more driver in front. Think I can fit 8 or 6x9 in front but then have no place for mids, unless I run 6x9 HP. I have a set of 4" comps, really wish I could fit the 4s in and run with 8" midbass...with the 4 12s IB it might really fit together well.

I just setup my first HT, but have hooked them up for others. I used a set of big home speakers, hung some tiny little 3ways on the wall for rears, and bought a center on ebay used since the voices did not work well without it. It sounds ok but what a pain in the rear, the thing is worse than my car subs...volume changes with every channel so it is only good for a movie or I turn it off. Then it gets loud and quiet, I set the night thing but what a bunch of screwing around. I hardly have time for movies, that is why I never had one set up before. Some tv like music or action shows can be cool on it or in stereo. It is a 100w/ch 5.1 amp. However just before that my old TV took a dump, it had speaker outs and a 5 band EQ. It was great; TV was in stereo on home speakers all the time with no fuss. I've had that for 15yr or so usually with a set of 3 way 10" home speakers on it and I miss it. On top of that it had a set of RCA outs that were volume controlled I ran into my HK stereo if I needed some thunder. My car is about the only place I listen to music these days, once in a while on the PC...unless I can get in the back garage then I fire up an old home amp on dual 12 towers. I like all that sound stuff, just no time now.