sqguy

Port is a trade off. Say you have limited power and want low bass, so you tune for 30-40Hz or low as you can get something out of the subs in question (before they really roll off). You get a nice boost there for the same power, and a boost there to counter the roll off you get with sealed or IB. But below that it unloads and makes little sound while the sub can damage itself flying all over. It takes more room than sealed box, makes more db where it is tuned to. I have IB subs and set to 15Hz SS on my crossover, I only have it on because some CDs would make the subs move at 5hz or whatever. It does not do that now but I can get 20hz pretty good. IMO ported is good for limited power or SPL needs, and those who like ported of course. If you are pushing good power you better have a SS filter. Roll off is where the lower you go, the less sound you get. Sealed box has the most as it damps the cone more as the cone wants to move more to make lower tones. Any sub will play 10Hz, but you may not hear/feel it if the db is really low. An 8" sub for example just can't push enough air to do the job. That is why I put four 12" IB in my car to get down there better. (btw ///M5, finally sprung for an 880 Pioneer )

I have a G190 and wonder how clean it is, I replaced amp and drivers when I dropped it in so could not compare much. I had a nak and it was really clean. Just wondering if I should swap it out as I can not get the new HU I want yet. Parametric on this alpine works nice. My highs are lacking and I think it is the amp, but wanted to ask what luck others had running one of these. I went to this for the fader and parametric it has, and still can do all my crossovers and gains from driver seat.

I run the whole system off it into the kicker 5ch so I can play with it on the road; it has the sub parametric, LP/HP xover, fader, sub level, 15Hz subsonic, and a few high side EQ knobs I never use. My old one had no fader and I need the rears for out of the car use as I can't hear the fronts out of the car. I wanted the subsonic and parametric for the IB subs too and it works awesome compared to not having those features. It does not sound right but I changed too much stuff at once to know what it is. I hoped someone here ran one and knew about them. I'm po'ed I don't have time to work on it and swap stuff so trying to do my homework for when the time comes. Just had the thought that I don't really know anything about the alpine other than good reviews I read about it.

Then what is it? I can't turn the amp filters off so they are set beyond it. It seems to work nice except it does not have highside gain and will not turn the sub gain all the way off. I wish I could have compared it, but I rewired everything so I could not. I suppose I could put the nak in there and try it on the fronts/subs. Did compare the high side amp I had before with this one and pretty sure the amp is not up to speed for this system. If I go and swap amps/wiring/subs like I plan just want to know if I should suspect this g190 as well. I've had plenty of other analog crossovers that sucked, has been a big problem for me. If need be I'll dig up something else to try since I will be into the wiring anyway. Or do you mean sell stuff and buy a DSP HU already....

Last carpet I picked up was at pepboys but not sure I would call it good, yet not bad. I like the heavy trunk felt or real heavy car carpet best but for a box IMO it is not that important in a normal car. I don't know where to get the felt now, I suppose online somebody has it but I was in a hurry last time. It is easier to put on and has a smoother look I like. Not as durable but I don't do much with my boxes anyway.

I usually silicone the inside of the box and use that on wires if I do it that way. I drill the hole just large enough, never had a problem. In fact I don't drill a hole I drill two about on top of each other, the wire seals that shape better. This IB I just did I used bolts between the subs. I used the size under 1/4 and broke one, was not impressed but short on room. So I'd recommend you don't use small ones. Then I ran the wires back through a hole at the amp but you can't see that hardly. So my trunk wiring for 4 subs goes from each sub's terminals to 1/4" from the edge of the sub. Then I wired the DVC together in by the VC, easy to do on these infinity and if it did rattle I will not hear it in the car. Wires are pulled tight. It is pretty clean wiring. If you don't want silicone then try something like that goop glue, it should do the trick. I like silicone so I can remove the wires if ever need be.

Lol, there is metal under that door panel. As I recall they had 3.5" in the dash? Being in the rust state, I have seen few of those for many years. Monte SS, that was also a hot one back then and same body. I did so many of those cars back then most of them I could mark a circle in the right spot and just drill one hole and jigsaw the hole in the door, not take a thing apart lol! Fish the wire and screw the speaker in, done. Not like I got paid much back then anyway. That interior looks pretty nice, will be a comfy ride for sure.

I bought the older style SS rubicon 302 for $40 at a pawn shop. Took me a year to find another reasonable and paid just under 75 tmd so I could run a pair, that was cheapest I found for a nice one. Waste a lot of time looking, that is how to find the deals...lol. Once had this job in an office with long hours, so we would walk at lunch because that was near all the activity you had all day. In winter/rain we went to a big mall, so every day I went through stores right to the back and past the clearance racks....yeah I bought nice $20 tee shirts for $4, coats, pants, you name it had a closet full after about a year doing that in a couple malls. You had to hit a store every week, that is how you get the deals.

Here would have been a great high side amp for example: 260241474224 I had to run some errands or I would have bid on it, that is a great deal. You can get one of these with the caps for this price maybe less 190222616029, or there are other cheaper amps for the wattage. They are new, efficient, small and so require less electrical in the car but I'm not recommending this particular amp as I have not used one. They are fairly popular on there, are made in China but have 4 layer boards and look all machine made so nothing sloppy. I have one here to try. So $125 and you would have had two amps shipped that should be of good quality, and certainly you could pedal them and get your money minus shipping out of them any time you wanted to upgrade. That MTX would be 2x50rms@12v, so figure 75 or so at 14v like other amps are rated. 600rms at 2 ohms on sub would be enough to shake the mirrors easy.

In a common setup, I would make a plate that just fit two 10" with a couple extra inches on each end out of say 1". The plate fit right up to under the trunk seal in width. IIRC there was steel there and had to cut two square holes to have a center support. I'd cut a slot in the deck cover that wide leaving a couple ribs for a grill, and you can mount the plate/baffle right to the bottom of deck. It leaves a thin triangle on each end that I would cut a piece to put in and screw from under, then silicone or we used window tape on them it worked great to seal it. Recover the top panel and it worked great. Another guy built a box (manifold) for each sub and fired the sub into the deck mounted box, it sucked compared to the plate with same amp/subs plus hogged up the trunk. But, if you are going larger for more output then I don't think you can fit more than a 10 before you hit the trunk opening unless you put say 4 10s across. With 18" it will need to be vertical, maybe you can mount like my 12s. I built a frame that holds baffle near rear of deck and down to seatback bottom. So it is 0" thick at bottom and about 8" deep at top, with a top piece that closes off my rear deck as mine fire into the seat cushion. But you could vent the whole rear deck that way instead. I didn't want to hose up the complex shaped rear deck cover (no time to junkyard another) and stayed stealth. It has plenty of output for my use and really the seat does not attenuate it much at all. I made 3 pie shaped supports to hold the baffle, I think mine is around close to 38" square. You get that big and the whole baffle will vibrate, now the whole back of the car does. I put weatherstrip on the baffle and screwed it to the frame to mount it loaded with 4 12s and 5ch amp in center. It is all 3/4 ply, frame part is glued and screwed, and deck side is all weatherstripped to car. I put deadening all around it/etc. You might have to make it deeper since it will fire out the deck, instead of my 0" at the bottom. I guess I would built a manifold/box about 6" deep? that fit to the rear deck on an open side. If you want to get custom you could vary the bottom side and make it a V shape pointing at floor or something like that, maybe less deep at bottom. Or, that is how I would start unless there is a more apparent way looking at the car. I would put the sub close as possible to the deck. You need to get close to the sq" of cone area in your hole in the deck I think. I was less with the 10s, but I think mounted so close to deck helped? I don't know but it worked. Think I left 1" of wood between them. It could get aperiodic at higher excursion I guess I really don't know what the 'rules' are for manifolds. Back then the subs were not as big of xmax as now and it worked just like 2 10s in a larger rear deck car. Must be the pass through hole was large enough not to affect output. Having seen many manifolds that had less output, I was very wary of that. Putting a sub in some vent or tunnel away from the deck hole never worked well, always better to have sub in deck or close as possible to it. The 10s worked well for music, even better with 2 pair but IB can only run about half power and you hit xmax. Unless the sub is rated for IB. More cone area is always better with IB.

How will you do the IB, is that the car with the narrow rear deck?

I bought my boston rc820 comps used and they work great...yeah except my lack of door treatment but that my fault. Seller was into high SQ stuff and great feedback/etc. Not sure think under 70 I paid. I had to make tiny spades for the tweeters and that was a pain, plus custom mounts because they had none. I would agree to spend more on front speakers because they make the SQ in your system, on the other hand if you get the right bare drivers you can also get out cheap but more work! I would shop up what you need and get them in there to start off. My subs are used too from retail store on epay, tested, no problems with them for average <$35 each shipped for the infinity 12s. They were dumping lots of them, that is time to buy. Rear speakers are some used cheap coax, mostly for when I'm outside car and were ~$15. I got the kicker 5ch as refurb for I think 160 shipped on ubid. I've seen broken ones go for more on epay, don't ask me why I don't know. It is a kicker factory refurb came in new box w/new accessories and test sheet. $35 walmart 5ga wire kit for two amps because I needed one fast, is a schoche seems ok, but I bought a 4ga power kit for $20 shipped if I need it. Amps are everywhere, just got a 4x50/2x160rms dragster they are supposedly good amps but $30? I'll take it. Just get brand name stuff that works, then move up later when you find something better for a deal or can afford 'X' that you want. Better that than buying new no-name stuff IMO (unless you know it works well). Keep watching and you can grab a couple reasonable. But yes those cerwin amps are hard to beat. For subs I always wanted to try some mach5s but have not had the chance to yet, they seem quite reasonable for the performance but there are tons of subs that work well from what I see (for music). I have seen some of the 4500 mtx go cheap for new ones online, I like the 10 I ran it sounded good IMO if they handle enough power for you. If you can find a place closing out a model, last year I found a place that had the whole line of polk audio speakers marked way down to dump them as the new year models were in. Likely a different color is all. If you are not into buying used like I do, Ogahyellow has some good points on new stuff. I do buy new at times, when I really know what I want but mostly I like trying stuff so used works for me. Every time I buy new it does not work out. Part of my wiring is lamp cord, the rest is speaker wire from a hardware chain. My EQ is used, the alpine HU came out of a car I bought and I had to get a new face and remote for 100 at the time. Naturally I want to swap near all of it out soon.

I have a Blitz amp with blue neon tubes on top of it. One of these days I'll try it in the car for fun, it would light up my trunk nicely....or should I just take the tubes out of it and put in my trunk....no, I don't want blue lights in my trunk anyway, lol.

I could save up for a new BMW car, but I'd be walking for years and years. It is great if you can buy X and put it in, but I paid for school myself, cars, boats, now working on a second house....and I had tunes the whole time. Sometimes pretty nice and other times whatever would get me by and be half respectable in sound. I don't care if its a pyramid, if it works and that is all I have I'll use it. I love a great system, but other things always seem to interfere. And if you snoop around and test/swap a lot of stuff you can come up with a great system for little cash. That is one reason I like to try different stuff all the time, and well its kind of fun I guess. I have a huge ultra linear amp I'm trying to get running, I can't wait to see what it does...just for fun then I have some alpine class d I'll likely end up using for subs. I bought this kicker I have now new, naturally it is not working out like I want. There is less disappointment when you don't pay much for something that does not work out. Of course there is less chance of that with higher quality equipment. I guess if you hate installing then you should save up, I used to do it so not a big deal except for finding the time to do it lately has been a problem. No doubt if you want it cheap it will take some effort. I had a couple of kenwoods that really put out and they were reasonable, but I sold them. Some other brands tend to be pretty workable and reasonable, like alpine, lightning audio strike, hifonics, sometimes memphis and mtx there are many more. You shop a lot and you can hit deals. Like I said, later on you can buy X brand new amp and swap it in then you will have what you want...if that is what you want. Me, I can't go without until then. I'll run kraco subs just to have subs. Then again for high side amps I like older ones better than new and always keep a few around.

So how much is a new 600rms class d? Most are still more than the boss, that is what I am saying. You get what you pay for usually. I bet the cheap ones are still cheaper per watt (I don't have numbers to tell) but they do like to break easier and have less warranty, etc.

Just take the remote wire off the amp while its playing to turn it off, will tell you if it is the amp.

I found a 3,000watt Boss BL3KD that lists 1200rms@4ohm, 2200rms@2ohm, likely 3K max. Hard to say if it makes that much and at what voltage. I would guess it is close if it says RMS rating but who knows they still could have rated it at 16v input or something. A quality 3,000 watt amp might be 3KW RMS at its lowest ohm rating so it would indeed be more than this 2200rms amp, and would be rated at a voltage a normal car can provide so could be further apart yet.

I'd say you need to spend some time on epay and shopping around. Used will save you a lot, maybe some things you will want new. Recently I sold a 900rms kenwood class d and a lightning audio strike 1kw rms, both went for around 100. Both are put together fairly well even though they get blasted on forums. I guess I would try some amps and get your sub box working, then see how the stock drivers work on a HP amplified. Then you need better drivers in front most likely and a HU depending on what you want to do. You may need a way to EQ it...IMO I hate running stock HU but it can be done. I would get a class d sub amp and a 2 or 4ch high side amp. I always toss a system together and get it going, if I want X item then I eventually get it and swap it in. I been swapping stuff since day one. I bet in a couple months I could put together a whole system for $500 maybe much less. Not sure how great but it would work. The other day I bought a guy an insignia 500rms for $40, even if its not super clean it does not matter on subs and it was NIB. I bought a 4ga amp wire set for $20 couple months ago, found some gold plated RCA for $4 at a local thrifty place. Once bought a nice soundstream 300w amp for $40 at a pawn shop like two year ago, you just never know. I ran a single 12 with it and it pumped it out on only an 8ga power wire. Don't like that 12 its a P5 explod, but I paid <40 for the new box and used sub for a temp rig until I got my install in. I would try to get a better quality amp for highs, the sub you can use anything to start with long as its big. I saw a new ultra linear 2400 that is 900rms I think, sold for 70 the other day. Then again I'd rather have a used 900 or 1kw for 100 that was class d as they take less power. I only mention that UL amp because I have seen the guts in one and 12 outputs is not bad, but yes if you get a cheap amp odds are it will be larger and you need a real big one to do the same job as a better amp. They tend to not be as reliable either. Lately I've been reading the cerwin vega exl I think it was, was a good cheap amp but I have not used one. I read they are nearly identical to arc audio amps but check it out if interested to make sure that is right one. Lots of the people on here don't mess with budget stuff, and that is nice, but sometimes you have to. These guys can tell you more about what subs to get there are so many, but with that budget you really need to go low buck to start with and work your way up...or you will not have tunes for a long time. Don't be so choosy and get some tunes going, then you can piece together what you really want. Kenwood might not be your dream amp, but hey if it works run it. You can always get your money back out of used stuff if you buy it right. My subs...I have 4 infinity 12s in my car and like them, also have a mtx and a alphasonik that work nice. None are that special but fine for what I do with them. Infinity in my car are IB, the rest I keep for spares and test amps on. The subs really depend on what power level you are going to be at. My car only has 420rms I can't even max them out IB but it is lots of bass for me since I can't even hear the front comps when I crank them up. That is why I am swapping out the 5ch amp in there, but changing the sub setup too for other reasons. They are heavy, I want to try two 15 instead and would give me more amp room. Whoa fn book there, hope that helps you out. Also you can save some other ways, I have used HD lamp cord from hardware place for speaker wire. It is near the same and cheap. Same with RCA, get something that is not going to fall apart but expensive ones are not going to help you on this system but hurt because you can't spent in places you need to. All that stuff can be replaced later if you want.

Can you just lay glass in some plastic and hold it up to the door for a hole plug? I've done that on other things, no mess that way. I like to use wood if I can, seems to deaden better.

Yes definitely. I ran this type of sub a long time ago with success, most people today say they will not work so I am hesitant plus not sure they are exactly the same....but are pretty cheap for a gamble. Also swapping from 5ch to 2 or 4 ch amps so should do the subs or I'll have to remount it all again and very time limited right now. Like I said it actually puts out more than I need, plus I don't have it maxed out with 400w. Guess I'd rather have less and be closer to maximum use, same great trunk room, less weight, and if it works have people drop jaw when they see what is in there like they did long ago. I notice a difference in this car with one 120lb passenger. I'd rather drive a faster car but too low on my list to worry about right now. I like this no car payment thing. This was a pic from install before I finished the wiring, was just testing amp on subs there. I put bolts in baffle between top/bottom subs and wired to those, ran wire behind and back out at top of amp. Tucked the top wiring up to deck, etc. Really all you see is the motors and amp unless you get down in the trunk with a light. I have carpet to put on it when finished with it. Thinking 15s at bottom and amps higher. Not ideal, but it is hard to get at the bottom part unless I make some kind of amp rack and don't want to lose trunk room. I keep thinking, because I don't like the amps on the baffle really but what else to I do and not take up space. Some larger items I carry fit in there good right now. Also thinking about a vanity panel that just covers the whole thing up (not sealed at all) and stick a fan in there someplace.

I have four 12s (infinity dvc) IB into my seat, they work great and have enough output for me but weigh a ton. So I'm thinking of lighter subs that are more efficient as well. So I'm reading up on it and that kind of sub tends to make less sub bass but more mid bass....a 12 might split at 40Hz where the common HD sub makes more under that and efficient sub more over that (more db); so they have more rolloff at lowest frequency. I like 30Hz, not sure if I would lose much since the difference is not very great. But now I am thinking maybe two efficient 15s would work better; with a lower Fs they should get deeper than efficient 12s right? Maybe as deep as the 12 infinitys? Two 15s might even weigh less than four 12s, but I'd have to make a new baffle. If it did work then I would have more amp room too. Looks like two 15s would be about 25% less cone area. I cross the subs at around 35-45Hz, of course IB tends to rise in db the higher you go so xover little lower than with a box. I can crossover higher if I use the parametric to boost 30Hz or cut 60/etc. Or should I try to stay with a more normal HD car sub not so efficient, weighs more, but go with two 15s? The current 12s put out way more than my high side on 400wrms, don't want to lose much but not needing more at this time until rest of it gets revamped (will be modding fronts soon). The efficient drivers with much smaller motors weigh a lot less, I'd really like to try to make them work IB if possible. I can feel that weight in the back of the car its too much. Could also run less amp maybe, that could save a couple pounds too and footprint. If I ever figure out the front mounting I want to go active so would need room for three amps. My last option might be to go with four 10s of some kind, but often are near same weight as 12s anyway since efficient 10s will have a hard time with 30Hz (done that before).

You do have to cross them off lower due to the natural roll off, and it is worse with efficient drivers usually, but for the room taken out of my trunk I can always get a pile more 30-40Hz than a box. This alpine seems to have a less db slope, I mostly run it at 35Hz on the label. I've never run over 100rms to a driver, but never used over these 300rms drivers either (for IB). In fact this is first IB I've ran that the amp could not bottom the subs. If you get a bunch of 60Hz and no 30 then you have the wrong setup, I've been there. Unfortunately most of the systems I ran IB were before the days of listing the parameters of subs (or I can't find them or don't remember what model), so I don't know exactly what those subs were (bought late 80 to mid 90s). Really po's me. Back then only the paper subs worked well and hard to find those now, but many poly subs were junk back then. Even now the few IB built subs I have found do not seem to go that low on their charts. It would help me to compare old/new responses. The sub used is very important. As far as my setup, I just ran a test CD to see what it was at with my weak mids. I tune it with music, have not bothered to test until I get midbass better. It has subsonic set to 15Hz on the crossover. At 10-15Hz it mostly shakes/rattles, 20 I can hear nice, 30 and 35 is peak and loudest in car, 40 cuts back some and maybe it falls slightly (roughly as this by ear) up to 60 where the mids are about the same level. 20 and 50Hz are roughly the same volume by ear. Isn't that close to ported? I like it, but I don't have to put much in the trunk to get rid of the 20Hz I have found. Less driver might go lower if I can keep the output which is just about right, it shakes all the mirrors if needed. The subs wash out everything right now, midbass/mid/treble and I have the parametric cranked way up in a range centered around 85Hz. Can only crank the subs on music with weak bass if I want to hear all the music. I don't crank it that often, but I want to feel it once in a while and when I feel it I can't hear the rest. Also found if I boost the 30Hz with the parametric and raise the crossover point to maybe 50, it hits tighter and still puts out the sub bass. Only one parametric on this so I can't do it with the weak mids. If I could it seems to give them a flatter response with plenty on the bottom.

I would go as far as to say polar opposites of each other. Both heavy on the bottom end, how is that much different in results? I like IB because I can't fit huge boxes in my vehicles, so I use more drivers and get the same sound. I can fit 4 drivers in a flat plane space of one driver's sealed box that can't get that low, or something like that. You're not going to get spl, but my subs are too loud for the rest of the system by far right now....on a kicker 700.5 that I read a lot of praise for in that price range, and with front and rears playing. It is pitiful with just the front comps. I estimate I could run a deep ported 10" in the space I am using, how much output at 30Hz would I get with an expensive 10 compared? And building a flat box would take more effort, I just don't think it could do it. I have a 400rms 10 I have tested with inverted in a ported 1cf (1cf+), it works but I don't think it can compare. Have not had time to stuff it in my trunk and try it. I ran at least 5 different 12s in a 1.25 ported that was huge in my trunk, they were a joke compared to the IB.

The crossover point and car were different, but it sounded very close to the same to me except the four 10" put out a little more. Of course the four were in the best IB car ever, a second gen F-body. The other was a horizon winter beater, the box filled the entire hatch to the shelf. The subs were out the sides at the tail lights, they seemed to horn out of that hole and up the hatch. Ports on the top. Not massive loud like today, but back then it was killer. Best yet they sounded great on all kinds of music. I've been hard pressed to duplicate the sound since with all kinds of boxes as I've had few cars I could do IB in lately.

I love IB, it is much like a large ported box with no box....but you need to have more drivers to keep your db. I had 4 10s and then put two of them in 4cf ported and it was near the same but not quite, on the same amp (at 2ohms not 4--80/60wrms x2 at 2/4ohm and they would bottom maxed out). Efficient lower wattage subs, likely not that low of Q. Some people say it is sloppy, but that is in the tuning/amp/drivers and can take time to weed out. You can't run huge power per sub, I like the great 30Hz response the most with no box. Hmmm, I have alpine 350, 500, and maybe get a 600rms class D's. A mrv-1002 if I go class ab. A lightning audio strike 1kw rms at 1 ohm, 700 at 2 ohms. Maybe the kar1000 to try, and have some cheaper 300-800rms amps that are class ab. Had a 400rms class d alpine but someone bought it. Even have a 300 SS that might run them. Have to get going so I can drop some of these amps sitting around here.