sqguy

ROTFLMAO, Thanks guys that was funny....an amp that sneaks a smoke and blames/blows it on the sub, and some evil distorted bass causing the amp to smoke a cig....that was a great read. I'm sure the amp has some kind of issue.

It seems to be Loud SQ. Just a suggestion but if you are worried about swapping the speakers in the car soon when you bail on it, maybe you can go midrange on those and leave them in? What you want to do is listen to some so you find the sound you like, like soft domes tend to be smoother and metal dome tweeters tend to be sharper and stronger at the top and so on....or however you want to compare them just so it is to your liking for what you listen to and the power level/price you need. I have had many that sounded respectable to me without breaking the bank but it can take some searching and M5 is right you need to hear them. Take your own music, something you are familiar with. If you run some kind of EQ you can adjust how they sound anyway if they are close. Then do your hammer sub and you can take that and the amps with you to the next car.

The fuse at your battery is really for the cable, so if it shorts it will blow fuse and not melt or catch things on fire. Its not for the amp so it should be sized for the wire and the amp will have its own fuse(s) internal or external. Too small a cable for your power usage/distance will drop the voltage...thats bad for an amp and limits output. Too big is just more expensive and maybe a tiny bit better if any, but good if you ever plan to upgrade later then you don't have to re-install it all.

SWEET! Whomever said that, please slap them as they obviously have no idea what they are doing. LOL, I've had a lot of people tell me that. But yes you need the right driver and possibly the right amp. Different amps change them. I was telling someone to run IB in a boat and marine subs are IB designed....a couple of people told me I was an idiot. People I am sure that have never heard IB. Now a box may be better for pure spl, but that was not what the guy with the boat wanted. Still working on my 4 12s but they shake the car a little alright. With my weak midbass they sound too powerful and are hard to tune...that po's me. Anyway, what a great thread! Lots of great install work you did there. I almost bought the seas rex 8s too but then they ran out and I have held off. Still don't have my wiring hidden in the trunk, too much summer to keep me busy lately.

That thing is impressive!

The simple version is to get a real nice set of front speakers, you can go different ways with that. You can use normal coax/etc or separates in two or three way, and can amp them separate active or make passive crossovers like a home speaker...or some come with passive crossovers. Placement is also an issue. Then you want a good amp and HU, you may need a processor of some type to dial it in from a simple eq to full digital setup with an rta but don't use a cheap one they put noise into the system. Then your subs will likely be tuned lower than spl for better sound.

Are you cutting the power (+12v) to the amps with a relay when you turn the vehicle off? Not the remote wire, the main power.

Just a stupid question, but what if I move the tweeter in the door down and forward? I have it above the mid, I might be able to move it ahead and lower than the mid; it would be about 6-8 inches from the kick panel about level with the top of kick panel....maybe centered with bottom of mid. I might be able to angle it more there also, and I have good sight lines to that area though I need to check what a passenger would do...but I ride alone most of the time anyway. Better staging? Bad idea? Not going to make much difference? Yeah I was reading about how kicks can make a good stage but mine are tiny and whole footwell is not that big. I have always run dash or pillar, or top front of door tweeters, or had them by kicks as fill but not primary.

///M5 is getting me to think that way with my 8s project if I get to it....to not try to run them higher than 300-400Hz. Plus my mounting would not allow much angling towards the occupants so off axis would be worse. So depth would be an issue in the doors and efficiency of course, then a good response from maybe 400 on down to hopefully 40-50 if needed...and somewhat IB in a door on top of that. Maybe that would just be a beefed up version of a good 6.5? I don't really know if a wicked big Xmax 8 could work good that way, and it would be deeper I imagine.

Oh yeah, that family stuff trashes hobbies very effectively Even more so when you have a lot of hobbies like I did/do. Welcome to the site, its pretty good. I got my system going but not had time to tune it in well, not happy with the stage at this point but tolerable. My old school 4 12s IB I put in have the thunder but high side not fitting in yet. Been driving another vehicle lately too so I can't even fiddle with it that much. I picked up a ss rubicon the other day that seems to work nice and missed a deal on another. I might end up using it yet if this 5ch does not work out.

Anyone get the 18 in IB yet? I was looking through posts for comments. I have 4 12s running now IB into my seat for mostly SQ but loud sometimes....I like 30Hz that is why I put 4 subs in. I have run IB a lot and try to use as many as possible but then I don't use that great of subs either. When they get moving a lot the quality seems to go down with the drivers I have used so more has been better to limit travel. Anyway, maybe at some point I would swap the 4 12s to two 15 or 1-2 18 and save even more space/weight in the car if the output was good. These 4 12s are fairly heavy in this little car. 18 does have higher Fs....I wonder about it. It can be hard to eq out if it has a steep curve and I don't have a fancy eq. I think my trunk is around 14cf. My dvc 4+4 ohm 12s are wired at 2ohms, I think that is only way aside from 8 unless you go 2ch.

Most of the mass produced subs I find that actually say anything about IB use recommend roughly half the rated power. I have 4 12s and thought about trying fewer but better drivers. I've always used cheap subs IB but lots of them to get away from the travel issue. I like to push 30Hz out of them. I'd like to hear a good quality 18 or two 12/15s IB.

oops double post

Just playing the other side here, but is it feasible to add an extension ring to an existing basket? Or is that a really stupid idea I never should have posted....

Not had time to mess with it, have to mod my kitchen for a new fridge. Found out the amp is only 40wrms x4 at 12.5v, no wonder it is so weak on highs car not running. Not sure what to do with that...highs need to be 2 ohms to keep up with the subs even half way, right now I can blow the highs right into submission with the subs quite easily....its not fair at all.

You are not running too low an ohm load on the amp right?

It is nice to have color to denote what is power and ground, but not required. Size matters and thats the important thing.

When you make something with fiberglass it will be a liquid mess, and the fiberglass cloth or mat will too once its wet. A mold is much easier if you are trying to apply it to a vertical or overhead place, or you don't want to make a mess where the part goes. All depends on how you want to do it, there is no right/wrong way really. I like molds because I have sanded enough bondo, so when possible I would use one. On some things I much prefer duraglass anyway.

Some people don't like rear speakers, strange people like me do. However like said your front stage (tweeter/mids) will dictate the quality of sound in your car, they are most important along with your HU and anything between the HU and front stage. I would do those and get your subs and amps all going and then worry about rear fill speakers if you want. A real quality 100wrms a side is pretty loud if the front speakers are fairly efficient but that is a matter of personal preference. Ported box is more efficient and so louder, but below its tuning it gives out and thats rolloff. If you want real low tuning like 30Hz the box will be relatively large, higher tuned ported can be smaller, sealed is usually smallest. Sealed will roll off sooner but still make the lower tones when you lay to power to it. What room you have and what drivers you use make a lot of difference. Usually like my subs in a box to face away from me in a trunk, but it depends on the car and owner really and what kind of sound you want. It may or may not change it. Active crossovers can be found in good HUs, what are you going to use? Or you might use the filter in the amp or a processor/eq like I use...or both at times.

I see a lot of them make an MDF ring for the driver(s) and mount it on the door temp with whatever maybe foam or clay. Then they glass over it and glass the ring right into it. They use bondo to smooth the outside off and sand it smooth enough for whatever covering they are using. Just remember fiberglass is a liquid...I have used it and epoxy on boats....it likes to have a mold and is hard to use if you don't have something to shape it to. You can also use plastic on something and glass it, then take the plastic off after it kicks to make that shape without getting it all over, its really messy stuff. It can be easier if you can mold something on the outside, like a dollar store plastic bowl you mod to your shape/etc and line it with glass; pop it out and then you don't have to bondo it at all...just like a boat is made.

Do the amps get their main power cut when you shut off the truck? I swapped amps in my car and it started to pop my sub every time I shut the car off. I just had it wired to the fuse box and the only open slot shut off with the key. When I shut off HU it was quiet when I shut off car...but who wants to do that every time you get out. Other amps didn't do it but this 150w ppi did. I changed the wiring before I took it out and indeed with full power to battery when car was off it didn't do it. Apparently the amp needs power for a few seconds to properly shut down. If that is the case, you may also be getting noise at startup as the power supply in the amp gets powered up and stabilized and so on. Once in a while I would turn the key on and listen to the radio a second, then start the car. When I started the motor it cut the power momentarily and the ppi would make real strange noises in the sub powering back up. You might be able to find a relay with a few second delay if you need to have the power cut when vehicle is off. I know they make them for industrial use if you can find one that runs on 12v. You could use one to run a larger relay. Or if you are creative you might be able to hack together an old headlight/domelight delay.

If that is your front stage mid/bass, personally I don't like anything less than 6.5 or in my case 5x7 at the moment. Unless it is a real hassle to install I would upsize.

Very nice write up! If you happen to have a trunk you can cheat with IB (free-air) subs and get that 30Hz, but it has its drawbacks as well so it is not for everyone. You can use less wattage and then use more drivers to increase output. Since you can't lay the power to IB subs like with a box, you don't need super high power subs either. Problem is finding drivers that will work properly as that is a large extent of your tuning ability, though a great eq would help. Also IB tends to work better for SQ with its ability to produce low Hz tones more easily and its limited power capacity. If done properly you can make a stout IB setup with a moderate level of amp and sub wattage that can produce powerful 30Hz for music listening --and have no box in your car at all. You would need to (very roughly) use twice the subs and half the wattage of an average box setup. Most subs that manufacturers say can do IB will say at half the rated wattage. Maximum applied amp power will be at the point the subs are playing near xmax, not any rating. Research this before you do it. I just put in 4 12" and they work well but I don't have it all sorted out yet.

I have some cassette tapes from the late 80s I think, they were made on very good home equipment and are metal tapes. I played them a lot in cars. So I was testing some speakers/amps this spring and got out my old cassette HU and had to find a tape....they still sound nice. They always sounded better than the ones you bought new, and the dolby C really worked nice. Not perfect maybe, but in the car audio environment they were pretty good, easier to handle than CDs, less prone to damage, only problem was waiting for it to wind to a particular place on the tape. The metal is on the opposite side the head reads, but yes a poor player can damage the tape. However if you made one you just tossed it and made another. I don't like CDs, I don't like the cases and pita it is to open them from the store or the exposed nature of the medium. I've seen older ones break in half easily. And they are too big to easily one-hand handle in the car like a cassette. I blame the industry for playing CMA instead of serving its customers with a quality product. I would have thought we would have a durable enclosed disk maybe sized like a 3.5 PC disk long before today...but still don't. Right, something like a minidisk but don't get me started on sony. A DVD is cheaper than a CD with a much more expensive content, go figure, and they wonder why the industry is dead. A CD is just a new version of an old record IMO, maybe somewhat more durable but people didn't carry records out of the house either. And just how old is the CD today? With data storage getting so big and cheap now certainly solid state is the way to go, or possibly a hard drive. Now you can fit high quality recordings on it and have great access. However there are many formats and equipment you have to change out, it is not a standard really and the industry comes up with the worst compromised junk that serves only themselves (IMO) so they are no help. This last decade or more is like living in yesteryear the way I see it; nothing has changed when it could be much better. You still have to be someone's pawn or buy an ancient CD and have the pita of make your own to get to a better medium. The only advantage today is when you rip it to a file you can move it around much easier...and I am sure they are trying to outlaw that every day. I know people that used RTR and VHS as a great medium, sounded great...they used them for parties because of long run time.

Unless you are screwing around with IB subs...