sqguy

Well, you get what you want I'll just suggest. I would shop for around 100K or less if you can, that is the life of the car and stuff will break more on the high mile....unless you intend to not have it long. I'd just get a taurus if you want a good cheap car, I can buy them all day long here cheap (<6yr old) and pretty much only the trans is what blows otherwise durable. CV is good car, yes its more like a living room couch on wheels but that can be changed some with rubbers in the springs. I thought they fixed the gas tank problem? Some they put bladders in cop cars. I have some family that just bought one, think a '00 for $6K with 50K miles like brand new. It has alloy wheels and painted trim, not bad looking and not bad driving. I forget but its a certain model like SE or something that had the cool wheels and stuff, it looks a lot better. The valve guides go out on the 4.6L with high miles. Lastly I would shop a lot, that is how you find the deals....and when you want to buy low ball them first. The last few cars I have bought were at auction or repo, were great deals, but most were broken and I can fix stuff some people can't.

I must only be half way there; close as I get is Metallica S&M and Dream Theater, maybe Yes-Drama (Drama from before my time but for some reason really like it). I can appreciate it but lack the down time for it. Do have some odd stuff, like Glen Miller and the Ink Spots (so old the quality is really bad unfortunately). Just found an 80s rock comp CD I been listening to and it is amazing in the differences of quality and production between the songs...ok not amazing as it sucks, but very noticeable. One of the downsides of listening to good equipment.

Poor wording, I should have said from the sub drivers themselves. I think most of the issue is the response of the subs being off causing X music (or song even) to be more/less bass SPL than Y music depending on bass Hz played, and then the subs don't blend properly. Get tired of dialing the subs up/down/over all the time. What seems to help is to push the subs down in Hz as proper in SQ, but then the common deficiency of midbass shows up. Since I am not often spendy with drivers many of my better sounding systems used 6x9 for midbass (when I had room) paired with subs that had a smooth rolloff on the top side to back them up. Issues with sub driver noise that were the worst seemed to be (or something causing) some kind of resonance in the cone thwarting a smooth rolloff into the midbass. Wanting to run some good power on the subs to support some SPL at 30Hz just makes it harder (with comparatively much more power on the subs they seem more sensitive to input change), though for me that is usually only 200-500wrms for subs. Rarely have room for a 30Hz box so run IB, and then you are down on the curve to hit 30 and have to kill SPL higher than that or EQ it...and I don't like a lot of EQ. That may be one reason I like 10" subs IB better, because they have more SPL above the crossover point. Then they blend better instead of rolling off faster....even though they are not as good at 30hz. Again if they have a driver noise issue, then it will come through even more with a higher Fs if you let them roll up under the mids like that. Hence my wanting to try 8s in my doors as an easy way out of this problem I always seem to get into. They should work much like 6x9 do for midbass.

I must be weird, it always seems to be the sub stage I have problems with. Noise from the cone(s) themselves is just one of many issues. I prefer IB so maybe why I've seen it more as a problem, plus have often used cheaper subs since they got the job done. Great insight by the way, great post.

Very nice indeed I never get to use those guys.

I thought the same thing. Welcome.

Run it or charge it for a while, then pull a cable off the battery and check the voltage on it. If its under even 11v its shot. 8v means two cells out of 6 are gone. I had two batteries in a truck and one did that, it would kill the other battery in a few days just sitting there.

I have 4 12" Infinity ref in my car on a kicker 5ch, its 420wrms at 2ohm on them. I built a baffle that leans back to near the rear of back deck and seals off the speaker holes, that way I don't lose much trunk space. The subs are 300wrms, the manual says about half for IB and it seems close as I can't get them to xmax yet, not really close even. I'm not sure as the high side gets toasted when I dial the subs up hard, but think it is about maxed as far as clean power. I can feel it, back of car shakes. They seem to work ok and have great bottom end, was not sure as I have not used this large of a xmax sub on IB before. With a more efficient sub or woofer you can get pretty good volume with lower wattage for the more SQ sound I like and that is mostly what I used in the past. My problem now is that I can't get near enough midbass out of two sets of 5x7s to keep up, and now one rear speaker has quit for some reason so I turned them off....I had to turn the sub gain down to about 1/4 to get it listenable with just the front boston comps. Even set at 40Hz the subs will drown the highs easily, have to get to work on it soon can't even listen to music with the thunder. If I had time I would actually buy cheaper lighter subs because I think these could take more power no problem, and that surprised me. My baffle with 4 subs and amp is really heavy. But I'm going to fix up the high side first. If I did it again and didn't find the deal on the 12s I would try two 15s, the right set of two 12s might be enough but I really can't block off two of mine (to try it) without taking the baffle out and that is pita to do. Also then I would be at 4ohms not 2 with my DVCs. So I'm kind of screwed until my high side plays better. Thinking of putting 8s in the doors and running the 12s around 40Hz will end up working best. They also play into the back seat but there is an opening at the top and no back on the seat.

Can't wait to see how this turns out. I cringed when I saw the one IB hole...more drivers is better when IB but you are doing two right? Should get the bottom but not knowing how well those subs will work.

I have used this foam weatherstrip but its not the gray stuff. It is black and is for double hung windows to seal the sill. It does not stick after long contact like the other stuff will (the non-sticky side will stick to paint). It does flatten out after a while but not all the way. Got it at Menards, something like 3/4x3/16 and it is heavier than the gray foam more like rubber.

How about good old silicone? It usually peels off of metal nicely and not bad to pop the driver back out if you don't use too much. Only other quick thing I can think of is use a putty or make a paste with epoxy/glue and sawdust or whatever....maybe even duroglass and put it on there then plastic wrap and lay the sub against it to form it properly. Duro might not stick to wood that well, could put some grooves/holes in edge to give it a foothold. You can cut a stepped hole in your top baffle with a router and then cut a stepped ring to fit and glue into it. I've done that a few times when I put 12" auto subs into old 15" home speakers....makes a nice cheap loud speaker for parties. lol, driving? It is not that easy to cut round with a jigsaw if you don't have experience with it, and a good one makes it easier than a crappy saw.

Interesting. Well I am far from knowing all the reasons why but have run up on this with IB subs many times. Cheap poly subs sound really bad, and the noise is above the crossover point usually. I always figured it was a dampening thing and the cone had a resonance issue. Paper subs always sounded better, even real cheap ones. This was running up to about 50 to maybe 80Hz max on a crossover. Often I could run the same subs in a sealed or ported box and the noise was gone. It sounds like a popping tone in the VC even at normal volumes. Some subs one could tap the cone with a fingernail and that Hz was it. Today poly subs are better, but lately I have used few IB to tell. Have some Infinity ref 12s now and they also do this but it is very hard to pick it out, certain tones seem to trigger it and they don't do it when the crossover is down to about 35 where it really makes bottom. They are mounted into the seat which will normally cover that stuff up, but there is a vent area above the seat to them. I'd rather have paper but got a deal on them, and figured they would be good enough for the 420wrms I have into 4 of them without stress that makes it worse. Indeed they are only moving at most half travel with the amp near max output. Some of you would call these cheap subs, I call $20-50 a cheap sub. Of course the problem is that IB will have more db at higher Hz just not as much as a sealed box. Even though you set the crossover at 50Hz while it slopes down the sub is ramping up and you still get some of the higher frequency. Some subs it does not seem to matter if you cross it real low anyway and they still make the noise. It is not rubbing and not topping out, it is almost like the VC is vibrating on the former with sharp inputs. That is the best I can explain anyway. A better sub is not going to do it usually but I still shy from poly when the driver is going to be in the same space as me (visible) and running IB. I would much rather have a paper based mid as well, but have heard plenty of other materials that sounded fine....just old school rules I guess. I swap until it sounds like I want.

I imagine it depends a lot on the operator too, many SQ setups may have lots of wattage but they don't try to max it out (yeah, obvious point doh). I do just to find out where I can go, sometimes I run it close and other systems with more power I don't have to. I have an ancient 30x2wrms alpine I have used in a few cars that puts out nice if you don't ask it to make a lot of bass, it will go loud for SQ especially at 2ohms where it has more power than that....and it sounds really nice. I've used a lot of 2x50-75wrms amps in high sides, a good one usually does it for me as far as volume and mid bass output. Some larger amps are so big (for show), don't like that as far as install and IMO a good amp that is big enough is no different than a larger one. If it does not sound right then it is the wrong app for that amp or that amp sucks. I have an old blaupunkt that sounds real weak in bass at full range, but it slams on IB subs like nothing else its size....go figure. So, I'm not a huge fan of perfectly transparent amps. Cars sound nasty to start with, and I also like to do my systems with the least EQ I can. I change drivers and amps to get it close. One of these days I'll get a good HU with the toys and make my life easier. I have a kicker 700.5 I am trying to make work right now. The sub part seems to hammer but I am having issues with the high side. Don't know if it is power supply or the drivers or amp, going to work on it soon as I can find time. It works, just not like I think it should.

If you want the boom, then I'd get your good sub/amp combo and get/build a nice ported box or what it needs....get your wiring and battery in there. But then if you don't care about SQ much why not use some good coax 6.5s? They can sound plenty nice enough, you would save the hassle of more amps/crossover/install. Unless you just want comps anyway, nothing wrong with that of course just thinking you could save money or get more boom and have the system in faster that way.

Said he interchanged the crossovers? You just have to eliminate things one by one, it can be a pita. If you come up empty them odds are something is making it happen not under your test condition...that is what made me think mounting though it might be something else. In fact one of my rear speakers died on me, I can barely hear a little treble out of it so I turned the rear fill off until I can get to it.

Could it be something to do with the mounting of driver, like crushed/shorting wire or warping the frame of driver/etc when its tightened down? Or do you think its the amp, is ohm load ok?

I'd love to drop a second battery in the trunk, but in this little car I don't have the room or want the weight. I can already feel the sub weight when driving. Also figure this amp just isn't that big so I should be able to get away with something like this? Everyone thinks the issues I have are from power so this should make a difference right? Then if I ever get around to putting the 8s in the doors, that will take more power yet. There is no way the high side of this amp will run 8s the way it is now even car running. I can try it, but fear I will need to bridge it and run another amp for the 3". It hardly runs the same door speakers cleanly any louder than a 2x30wrms alpine did at 2 ohms, its not right. It goes louder but sometimes it distorts and other times no. Even turning up the crossover does not change it much, turning it down would kill the alpine. It acts like input overloading but changes with the music. It does not break up it gets fuzzy, unless that is just what cheap amps do I've never had this issue. When my other amps break up they either do or don't and you know for sure.

I'll get a pic soon, but I got a battery jumper that blew the charging board in it....well I charged it with a normal battery charger and its fine. So I popped off the back and it has a nice "lead acid sealed battery" in it. Obviously this is a high amperage/capacity battery or it would not be able to jump a fly let alone a car. Its maybe 2-3" thick and 6" tall by 8" wide roughly. So, with my monstrous 700.5 amp (lol) I was thinking this would be the perfect cap for it to mount in the trunk. I still have to inspect it for vents not sure if it has any or not....hoping not. Seems like if it did it would trash all the wiring inside the jumper, also has an air compressor in it. I did consider just mounting a jumper in there instead of just the battery, then I could actually use it if I ever needed to. This would add minimal weight and take up little room in the car over a normal battery.

Battery is factory replacement about 3 or 4yr old, but is a normal four banger little car so nothing is big or powerful on it...but I may have the answer. I got a hold of a jumper, I posted about it. Think I will mount that battery and a little cap and see what happens. A friend of mine says not enough power too but I don't know how I ran a rubicon 302 (300wrms) with 8ga instead of the new 5ga, but had different subs then. The lights don't dim much at night so I was thinking of not doing anything, but maybe it does have an issue that gets amplified at 12v? I'll get it figured out one of these months... But yes I should have added there could be a power issue. Even if this is the amp, I really can't complain given what I paid for it. It hammers pretty good when car is running and that is mostly when it gets used. If this problem gets better I'll be quite satisfied, I'd just like to know I can run it up to X volume clean and be a few notches away from distortion like I was with other amps.

I agree with ANeonRider- get a good amp with the nut, wire it right, then worry about subs. It will go loud and if you blow the subs get better ones later. I would not call a kicker a good amp, though I am running one and it does work ok. It is very sensitive to voltage and does not put out when you turn the car off, wattage is like near half if you look at the specs closely for 12v....or mine is anyway. I don't care that much about flat out volume or I would get it out of my car for that reason....but I don't care for that aspect of it either. I'd say you better count on having a good supply of power if you run a big kicker amp. That is my experience with it and mine is only 420wrms to the subs. I prefer older quality amps myself, and don't have much experience with newer amps others here use except this kicker I run. Oddly I seem to have more of a problem with the high side of the amp not having power at 12v, not the sub side as much. Compared to other smaller (better name) amps I ran in the same car, some on the same drivers, the high side seems to be lacking IMO.

For my .02, maybe only .01... I would set up some comps in the front the way you like, like said above with deadening....put the mids in door or better kicks if you can, tweeters in kick or dash or both if you want...try them and see but more speakers is not necessarily better. Then I'd run 8s for midbass in the doors but you will have to bandpass them. The 12s or an 18...whatever works better for the space you have I guess. I have 4 12s but they are IB so I have most all of my trunk to use and with 4 I can hit 30Hz nice and still get some output with no box. Only have 400wrms on them but its loud enough for me for now. I like to run rear fill, I think it can sound better but many say toss them. Just set them lower so the music comes from the front to you the most, it also depends on how big the car is mine the rears are same distance from my head as the fronts so time alignment is not an issue. They still can sound wrong if the two sets of speakers don't get along for whatever reason, you do have to be careful doing it. They can cancel out sounds. If you run them separate it is easy enough to test. What you might end up doing is setting up the subs to run down to ~30Hz and hit hard at ~50. Then you can dial the crossover down for SQ and up to shake the car. It depends on how the 8s put out but better SQ is often having the subs play under about 50. I play with my crossover every song at times but don't have it dialed in the way I want yet either. I want to put 8s in for midbass next. With my IB subs they do get louder up higher, I can turn the crossover up to 80 and they are much louder than down at 45...but it sounds better with them low, except my mids are lacking thus why I want 8s. Right now I have them higher but the slope is EQed out of them. IMHO when you run a good sub and you like it to rumble, you need good midbass to help connect the powerful subs with the rest of the system. The right 6.5" can do it but I want 8s.

A battery is a voltage stabilizer. Depending on the car you might be able to bump the idle speed up a little too to help with the drop at idle. The voltage regulator controls the voltage...you can't go too high or it starts to trash 12v things like maybe your engine computer/etc.

Caps are not a big mystery....they only hold enough power for a number of milliseconds. If that much fixes your headlight dimming then it worked fine. But no, they will never keep your voltage from falling if your wiring/alt/batteries can't keep up with demand of your system....so they will never make it louder in normal use. And right, if your voltage is falling and you are losing wattage...you are losing it even though your headlights may not be pulsating. I'm going to try a jumper or the battery out of one, but I don't seem to even have much headlight dim with the 700.5 in there right now. I would like it to hammer for a little bit with the car off though, does not take long to kill it. With my limited wattage and this little car I don't want a second car battery if I can help it. (but that is the best way)

Wouldn't that be like a cheap sci-fi movie...."Attack of the Giant Crickets"?

OK found some cheap with some help from a guy...that sells them of course. This one looks real close in spec to the original, the timing is a little faster (tr, td, tf) is all but not sure that matters or not...other specs look good. So, we will see. I will go at it when they get here and see if I can un-explode the explod. We'll find out if I'm the dude on the left or right there....