kryptonitewhite

yes sir! close, but I think max SPL is generally 5-10Hz above tuning... at least when I model in WinISD and Bass Box Pro 6... but I won't put my life on it bro!

High Sd? So just a larger diameter driver? haha. I take it you just want something to belt out the lows between 0-40 hz or so? Your parameters are pretty hard to find by themselves, much less together. Especially the <20 hz Fs in a car audio subwoofer with high excursion. The Dayton Titanic is somewhat close, 20 hz Fs but only 20 mm xmax. The Audiopulse Axis is close, 22 hz and 30 mm. It's $721 on partsexpress.com. The Adire Tumult has 34 mm and 19 hz. Good luck finding one though. now that's the answers I am looking for! Thank you kind sir!

No, all I said was I want >30mm Xmax, <20Hz Fs, and D2.... read the topic. MY topic. When people started trying to argue what I wanted, I had a little fun with it. I know the perfect driver is +/- 0dB 20Hz-20kHz, and I know the only driver that can do that is the Adire Audio FR125S modded with dB dust and coated with node/break-up dust but aside from that, I want to play with some really cool sub-perfect 15's jus playin... lighten up people!

the question to this thread is what all subs... but too many people had to ask why, then argue why... not just answer the question... so i made a blanket statement saying my personal want in a sub is Xmax. some people care about Vas and Qts because they want to make a tiny box that sounds good but doesnt take up too much room. good for them. let them. I will sacrifice every cube I have to get lower, just as I want a lower Fs and higher Xmax... and yes, power handling as well. I did NOT say the ONLY thing that matters is Xmax. Do you really think I don't know that this whole game is give-take? Subs, enclosure... comprimise, balance...but most important..preference not trying to be a dick, but if I cant be semi-playful about people going off topic on my own thread, then I get warned for following off topic... on my own thread, then maybe I should make it more clear... I want high Xmax low Fs drivers. If you know of any, please post here, if not, it's not my fault you ask why? how come? or tell me "that's stupid"

then give it more power! ! :D

I believe the enclosure is just as important no matter what alignment. if you are doing an infinite baffle, the least amount of effect, going from 4X Vas to 10X Vas to 20X Vas to 25X Vas to 100X Vas, will change things... how significant? IDK. But going from 1cu ft sealed to 2cu ft sealed changes a lot. Going from 6mm excursion to 36mm excursion will chnage everything significantly, no matter what box. if a vented enclosure doesnt make much difference in excursion, then you wouldn't need a volume knob, as turning up the volume simply increases excursion, and we could all go out and drop $5 at a garage sale and get a 50 year old tube radio speaker or organ sub and port it, and it would be the same as an 06 XXX sub of the same size. increasing excursion increases volume, no matter the alignment, and to the same proportion. same box, same cone area, more excursion means more sound. or are you telling me that when you have your system to 1/2 the normal listening position, your cone is moving the same distance.... just less power, and just less sound?

Who do you need so much xmax? Lots of stuff can do that too... bet this starts a debate... but thats what were here for... if I had only 1 spec to choose while purchasing/choosing a driver, screw power handling, efficiency, Vas, VC option...screw everything.... I want Xmax, as the overall determination of how loud and clean a speaker is... is it's linear excursion. I will take a 10" sub that moves 2 feet peak to peak but needs 10,000 watts to get there and 8 cubic feet. Because 2 18's that only have 6mm Xmax, but only take 4 watts to get there and .5 cubic feet between the two of them still has less output. displacement is important in a sealed box as well as efficency. the second you go ported xmax and efficency are nolonger the important parts. xmax is also not the most a sub can move its the xmech. a sub could have an xmax of 14mm but an xmech of 45mm. I disagree with that just as much as I disagree with square subs having more advantage from Sd gain in ported and not sealed. Thats just like saying in a ported box it doesnt matter if you have an 8" or a 15" cuz it all comes from the port and yes, i know the diff between Xmax and Xmech, and Xlim, and Xsus, and Xmag. I know the difference between high BL high Sd and High Xmech SOLOX18 and a Maelstrom-X

Fs is next important, otherwise I'd go 05 XXX and many other's that have tighter suspensions and more power handling (power REQUIREMENT)

When I was saving for Tumult's, I considered several times saving quite a bit by going with Brahma's, but I always came back to wanting that little bit more and being different than all those out there that had Brahma's... XXX not a chance... high Fs... getting too close to SPL subs...

I didnt have much time earlier to rely reply, but I had been checking into the IB's for a while, and they are single coil... I need D2 to get .5, and Q just isn't quite enough, then again, If I would go with Brahma's or Avalanches, then Q works too... but no, I'd prefer Tumult, SDX15, so on....

Who do you need so much xmax? Lots of stuff can do that too... bet this starts a debate... but thats what were here for... if I had only 1 spec to choose while purchasing/choosing a driver, screw power handling, efficiency, Vas, VC option...screw everything.... I want Xmax, as the overall determination of how loud and clean a speaker is... is it's linear excursion. I will take a 10" sub that moves 2 feet peak to peak but needs 10,000 watts to get there and 8 cubic feet. Because 2 18's that only have 6mm Xmax, but only take 4 watts to get there and .5 cubic feet between the two of them still has less output.

that's exactly what I want, but, id have to get used and re-cones would be difficult

I was checking out the IB18's a while back, but power handling would be an issue...I'll look into the 15's

The axis looks pretty sik... looks like good excursion there, i like the tall/narrow surround, looks like a TC / Sound Splinter type basket, double or triple stack slugs? (still reading website)$850 MSRP thats a killer right there...what do they go for new? I'm looking for 2 15's and to spend about $500 for both.... I am reconsidering getting dual CSS SDX15's. I heard they weren't living up to specs, but I am finding out about that now. That's $550 for 2 shipped. I just went to look up the 3000... so the axis is TCSounds? Not surprised! LMS-Ultra is badass, but 2G MSRP.... forget it... If I had that I'd get a single 06 XXX 18

pretty damn impressive

as my project didn't take off, i gave my 850.4 to a friend that was running an old old v12 4 channel bridged mono on a generic 12 in a beat up bandpas box, to do the same... run mono on a 12" sub big mistake, shouldda kept it, but wasn't impressed at it's output 1 bit... i think the sub is single 4 ohm, maybe wouldda had different results if it were on the 4 Extremis 6.4's as intended... dont wanna think about it But maybe it's a blessing in disguies, I'd rather ditch the kx200.2, 350.4, and 850.4 for a pair of those 900 SX's! Too bad no SX2500.1, get 2 of those for sub duty and call it a day. Back to reality...lookin forward to your van! Those are 15's in the SUV right?

Thanks Brian, now that I've sent out a few emails requesting info...all my questions are answered

When I open threads, only the first post shows, and I have to click 1 by 1 to view replies. Can I change a setting so all is shown in order?

previouse projects: a ported box we made for 2 12" L5's, tuned as low and as much air space as possable...my motto 4th order S of .7 (as large as possible for flattest/widest responce as opposed to .4, peaked for SPL, narrow passband, highest gain) F3 20Hz...insane...tought me SO much resin is EXPENSIVE...this box cost over $120!!! Curved corners...priceless before routered/outside resin Lanzar OPTI2000D does NOT have soft turn on as advertised. therefore, 2 avalanches were blown by a lanzar amp. Had to cut it out of the box, so it became 5.1 cubic feet poted @21Hz...best box i've ever had.

So far I have: Hyundai Accent GT: gutted, stuffed with 65 cans of expanding foam, 14 gallons of bondo that need removed from the windows and redone by welding sheetmetal instead. 320lbs of 3/4"mdf for the false floor, ceiling, doors, roof, dashboard, and subwoofer chamber/wall. I had 5 1gallon buckets of Spectrum Firewall...sold 2, trying to sell the rest, and a 5 gallon bucket of Spectrum Sludge...trying to sell that too. 6 Optima Red tops...getting 2 more. An Audio Control 6Xs, getting a second one when i get the crossovers so I have 2 bandpassed signals and 1 HP, all at 24dB/oct, then using deck/sub amps to cross the subs. 2 Vifa XT25TG30 Ring Radiator Tweets, a KX200.2 to run them 4.5kHz on up, 2 Adire Audio FR125S's and a KX350.4 to run them at 8ohm, 4...yes FOUR Adire Audio Extremis 6.4's and a KX850.4 to run those...massive overkill...I like deep loud throaty vocals for Pac. I've removed the whole cooling system, and maintained the mounting hardware and belt for the AC compressor to fit 1 of to HO alternators..prolly Iraggi. I've built most of the dash from 3/4"MDF, including the front stage that is aimed and staged. I removed everything unecessary and that will cause air leaks to the exterior...so the dashboard will be filled with expanding foam, I maintained only the heater and took all vents off...1 hole that will be plugged during burps. I plan on building a large dual chamber sub wall/enclosure with 6 cubes per sub @20Hz...yes 20HurtZ...and i'm not changing that, hate all you want. I will most likely do 2 SDX15's, but I am considering 18's...if I can find any 18" XBL^2 driver with 30+mm Xmax. I will be getting 2 KX2500.1's, 1 per sub. Way down the road, since all that equipment is over 1500lbs, air ride, ground effects/body kit, and it's gonna get painted Rhapsody Purple...so dark it looks black from a distance or when it starts getting dark. Deck will come much later, see whats best at that time.

For years I've been obsessed with InfraLow bass. OK, not sub-sonic anymore...now 20-30Hz. I've had so many debates, and I've gotten so much critisizm for tuning "too low". The best way to argue would be...is there information on music CD's from 20-30Hz? I've had this discussion before, but no one had any solid proof. People with frequency spectrum analyzers said "Akon and Young Jeezy's Soul Survivor only goes down to 33Hz". When you play it on an analyzer, it shows a PEAK low of 33Hz. When you play a 33Hz test tone, it doesn't show 33Hz! Here are some songs that I believe to have information well below 30Hz: Hail Mary, Tupac Shakur, The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory, Makaveli! Return of the "G", OutKast Aquemini Late Night Tip Three 6 Mafia Da End CD Cryptorchild Marilyn Manson Antichrist Superstar (Not even the organ passage, something lower) Check this vid at :29 seconds. This is the stuff I like, this is what i need to safe guard my subs from with over-excursion, this is where I want my system to peak: http://realmofexcursion.com/videos/Kicker/solox18.5.wmv here are some spectrum analyzer links: http://www.relisoft.com/Freeware/freq.html http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/cat/SPECTRUM_ANALYZERS/ http://www.phonature.com:8092/home/product...c_HandDeeSA.htm

I havent had anyhting in that car since I bondo'd the windows. yes I was banned from sin. No need to delete me, I won't be coming here much anymore. You may be pretty smart and know a thing or two, just like the arsehos running sin, but youre also arrogant and not so right about everything. Some of your users are pretty cool, but you had to ruin it. peace

Go to an autobody shop and ask them if I have issues. It didn't crack until driven. More layers would be added and it wouldnt crack until driven again. Youre not seriousely going to try to say cars dont flex are you? How about blow through's in trucks. Why the need for such flexible gaskets? Trucks have frames, and are therefore less prone to flex/twist. But they do too.

I understand. I hope I'm not misleading anyone, I hope most people are understanding what I'm apparently not saying the best way. I don't have any misconceptions, I think I'm being partly misunderstood, and partly disagreed with. I have experience. I'm sure we have both heard many many different alignments, and both built many as well. I stand by my belief that in my case, tuning below the norm is not a waste, and that it is benmeficial to me. I've heard the difference and I like the difference. I don't think it makes sense to most because I am not after what most want.

yeah, expensive learn...and it was a LOT of work, sanding every layer. But now my bondo skills are a little better heh. I hope to save and get a welder, and I'll weld sheet metal in there...it's not the bass flex I need to worry about...cause there'll be a few inches of expanding foam between the enclosure and the car. The cracking was from turning....unibody twist