kryptonitewhite

Hey man! Link to the build and a video is in my sig. . . 159.7 @ 42 Hz last time I metered. Changed seats and waiting for SMD subs right now. May rebuild before I buy SMD subs and go with (5) 18's instead of (6) 15's. I honestly have been so busy that I hate the thought of starting over. Goal is still 160+ playing music. Sorry for the thread jack - Back on track now! The 22" BTL may give the XXX a run in displacement, but I think the XXX will still have the edge. Keep in mind they are going to be totally different subs. The XXX is a low end monster. We have installed a couple of the 12's. They are not as loud as people think they are going to be on the meter, but just listening to music the low end output is incredible. XXX is so darn expensive. Skip is a RE dealer, and we just bought one off ebay instead of direct!!!! Brian I am thinking low end monster ya, I was also thinking price not a factor... many other subs would be a better alternative. Really all i want to know is, is there anything else at all like it? Crazy they're not as loud as expected.... thats a lot of air to be moved!

Just wondering about the other subs like the TC5000 or whatever it is that has 38mm Xmax, sub 20Hz Fs, a beast... SQ beast with massive low end. I like how the thread turned out, got to see some more interesting things out there which is nice I'm sticking with a 22" driver to come, I'm not looking to spend $1000's on a single sub... just over the years seems to me the highest displacement single SQ sub is the XXX still.

Just playing around with my 1st TL experiment. It's ghetto, but sounds terifik for what it is. I have a cheap Walmart Regent HT-391 surround sound. I dropped the 5.25" subwoofer into a 5.5" cardboard tube I snagged from work 8'6" long. I believe that makes a 33Hz 1/4 wave. Once upon a time I had a TP roll glued to the cone for added mass experiments, so I tore it off so the black paper coating came off a little. I can't believe how loud and low the rear of the tube is VS how loud the driver end is... I wish I could do an 18' 22" pipe in my car for an IB3 22"! The camera is bad, sounds really distorted, but it's actually very clean and clear. I didn't do the 1/3rd-1/5 way in mounting, it was just a free experiment... so the high resonances are LOUD.

beautiful

holy freeking sheeet mon!

They never made em! Dan tried his little drop spot in Chilli, and it's been Exodus ever since so what was gonna be Tumult 18 became Mael-X I believe

JUST FOR SOMETHING TO DO!! Tumult 18D2 Avalanche 18 RL-p 18 D2 Fi IB3 single 2 Fs 15 Hz 16.00 Hz 20.71 Hz 22.3 HZ Qes 0.38 0.43 0.482 0.81 Qms 15.1 6.00 4.535 3.33 Qts 0.37 0.43 0.436 0.65 Vas 566 liters 550.0 314.2 381.0 Re 2.8 3.2 3.74 1.5 Le 2.4 2.4 Ls 3.317 NA Xmax 33 27 27.4 30 Sd 1080 1209 1188 1210 SPL 88.9 dB NA 89.45 dB 89.1 Pmax 1000 NA 1000 550 BL NA NA 19.5 8.43

you do very nice and clean work props man

I'm going to take a stab: every 2 weeks UPS comes to pick stuff up. If you order the day before, your stuff may get shipped the next day. I take that back, cuz it took 1 week before there was even an original UPS scan and email. If your order is PLACED the day before UPS comes, then your item may be picked up by UPS the next day. I'm gonna guess worse-case-scenario is mine: I called in, almost a week later they filed it with UPS. UPS sent me the tracking number. It sat there for 2 weeks. UPS picked it up yesterday with the rest of the bulk. Jus guessin. I've been waiting about 3 weeks. Yes, it's on its way. Status: In Transit . In Transit Rescheduled Delivery: 03/31/2009 Shipped To: SIOUX FALLS, SD, US Shipped/Billed On: 03/17/2009 Service: GROUND Weight: 4.00 Lbs Package Progress Location Date Local Time Description LAS VEGAS, NV, US 03/26/2009 9:15 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN 03/26/2009 7:33 P.M. ORIGIN SCAN 03/26/2009 3:19 P.M. PICKUP SCAN US 03/17/2009 5:43 P.M. BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED Tracking results provided by UPS: 03/27/2009 9:45 A.M. ET

about 18Hz seems to be my sweet spot, having retuned it again

I'm trying to see just how different an "IB" sub is from other subs that can be used in other applications. I didn't include Maelstrom-X cuz it's a Tumult under a different name Box: 18.5-19.5 cubic feet amp: BXi2608D room: Aztek hatch walled

360lbs of battery here, cpl 100 in box

snicker that's not nice, but its funny

looks good! VIDZ!

as in found 1st or never lol Rescheduled Delivery: 03/31/2009 Shipped To: SIOUX FALLS, SD, US Shipped/Billed On: 03/17/2009 Service: GROUND Weight: 4.00 Lbs on it's way

absolutely NOT. just yet another way to open myself up to get hammered... trying to compare an IB sub to some of the best drivers ever built to date for the application I want. oh, and: Tumult MSRP was $799 Avalanche I think was $390? RL-p MSRP $999.00 actual $420.00 IB3 $220

LAS VEGAS, NV, US 03/26/2009 3:19 P.M. PICKUP SCAN US 03/17/2009 5:43 P.M. BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED

Do you know of any cutaway pics that would give a good view of this? I recall years back studying the Adire Audio Extremis and it's sleeves, but that was a long time ago. Thanks again, this is exactly what I was looking for.

So I have been under the misconception that the main difference in build was spiders. I thought that the main difference between SPL subs and SQ subs was SPL had super tight multiple spiders, raising the Fs, raising power REQUIREMENT, where as SQ subs had 1 loose spider lowering the Fs and allowing the speaker to move easier reducing power "handling". I am now learning I am WAY off. I thought SQ subs were most efficient, and SPL subs were super inefficient power hungry beasts wasting power. So now I am hearing that... let's go with the Fi lineup for comparison: I see the BTL on 1 end of the spectrum has the largest permenant magnet, a solid pole piece...no pole vent. I believe it has a smaller/narrower gap with less tollerance making it have even more metal, adding more power derived from the magnets, as well as the closer the gap is to the coil the least amount of flux lost? On the opposite end, we have the IB3 series, very small magnet structure, thin top and bottom plates, and the least amount of metal in the pole piece, as the pole vent is MASSIVE. So it has less steel in the middle to "soak up" the ferrite's flux? Having torn mine open for a recone, I was very shocked to see that the gap is HUGE... the pole vent maye be pretty tight with the coil former, but on the outside of the voicecoil, theres a LOT of room. So here's the next part that confuses me, that I want to learn about: first let me make sure I am accurate on a few things: having a very large permenant magnet AND lots of metal, and a tight gap means more power, more efficiency, and more power HANDLING as well... but cooling becomes an issue. Having less metal, larger pole vent, decreases efficiency, decreases BL, but increaes cooling... so less overall power handling, but handles things better for longer periods of time. The burper handles lots more power but short term, the SQ takes less but for longer periods? As well, I believe the BTL is 8 layer, where the IB3 is 2 layer.... so 4X's the windings also increasing windings in the gap, so increasing BL and efficiency, as well as handling more power.... the IB3 has less windings in the gap, less efficiency, less power handling, but probobly lower Le/inductance? So now to bandwidth/inductance/Le (same thing?) The SPL beast has longer coil, raising inductance, decreasing high end extention/bandwidth... more peaky responce. The SQ has shorter coil, less inductance, smoother/flatter responce, higher extention, wider bandwidth??? If i am anywhere close with all of this, I wish I could have an IB3 but with a larger permenant magnet... tripple 12" slugs, and an 8 layer coil (maybe even 4" ) so that it handles more power, has more BL, but still has the vented pole piece for longer periods of time... still has 1 soft spider (if it could maintain linearity in an excursion fasion... no rocking issues, no scraping) so it still has a lower Fs (even lower with the heavier coil, but I assume the larger perm mag and more layers of coil increase the Fs again) and still has some efficiency with a loose suspension... WOW I said a lot, and I hope I'm not too far off...

Having a large magnet means you have a lot of potential flux in the system. You must have enough steel to carry the flux while still making sure the steel is saturated (ie. can't carry any more flux). Air has greater reluctance (resistance to carrying flux) than steel, so keeping the gap tight ensures you have the most flux possible in the gap (since the coil is closer to the steel). Any time you're able to increase BL, you're able to increase efficiency. There is no strong correlation between the amount of magnetic material in the motor and the power handling of the driver (note that talking about power handling and cooling is essentially the same thing). The steel in the motor does play a role, but the dominant factor is always the coil. The goal is to get the heat off the coil; in the past, the idea has been to get as much air moving in the motor as possible, which is, in part, one of the reasons the pole vent has been used. In reality, we just need to get the heat off the coil, so moving it anywhere else will be useful. So instead, you have a lot of steel in the motor, add some copper or aluminum shorting rings, and design the motor such that air is drawn down into the top plate, over the windings, and then passing the heat into the shorting rings below the gap or into the steel above the gap. The pole vent is still useful for relieving pressure under the dustcap, but it is best to keep as much steel as possible, in my opinion. Keep in mind that another dominant factor in efficiency is the mass that is being moved (Mms). The longer the coil, the greater the inductance. Since the inductance and resistance of the coil acts as a first-order (6 dB/octave) low-pass filter, it is preferable to have inductance that pushes the corner frequency (at which response begins to roll-off) above the bandwidth in which you'll be using the subwoofer. For SPL, you typically want a lot of windings in the gap (for both power handling and BL), so inductance is often higher. that was beautiful... exactly what i was looking for. Thank you Neil! I'm gonna have to re-read that a few more times to get more understanding of it

i am a bastard to subs, I scorch them by clipping the chit out of amps, and I bottom them hard cuz I am disgustingly obssessed with lows... BUT... I have NEVER seen anything like that sub... cooked ass cone! WTF! That had to be just the right amount of power to not cook it right away, yet get it hot enough for long enough to slow BROIL like that... thats just nutz. I love going ported, cuz if I make it get a little stinky, I smell it right away and back down.

well I think it is clear that ordering anything just takes a while from Fi. It sucks. It's life. fudge! lol obviousely it's worth it, or we wouldnt deal with it still sucks ass

To my understanding, the ib3 was optimised for an ib application (yes, I know your thoughts on this) where an extremely strong motor and a high'ish fs isn't needed (you also reach mechanical limits before thermal limits, so no need for a coil that can handle gobs of power). And the btl was build to take some abuse, just why they were designed like they are. One more thing about the btl motor is the fact that there are other cooling techniques. Venting the pole isn't the only cooling technique and, iirc, the bp power option consists in blocking the pole vent, to re-direct the air flow. I probably didn't cover everything you asked. If there's more, be a tad more specific [offtopic] SQ refers to a style of competition. It is not a term to describe a good sounding subwoofer. Maybe it can describe a complete system (not just sub + amp + head unit). [/offtopic] good info there, thanks Adrian What would you think if they made a Q 22" and I dropped it in 18 cubes.... would you think the more balanced Q would have the push for a larger 22" sub with a large low Q enclosure?

I'm not sure using the word " ridiculous " is the best idea to help someone who is openly admiting they aren't sure, that they are ASKING... open about not knowing. But anyway, since you must have a very good understanding about what I am asking, rather than just saying "NO, that is not correct" (which would have been a far better way to say it to begin with) how about tell me why. Explain to me how it really is. That would be a very nice thing for you to do, in fact, I am of the obsured opinion that's what this forum is here for... someone asks a question, someone answers. If you don't have the answers, don't reply.

so is that basically the rule of thumb, full clip equals double rail voltage? cuz that's what I've thought for a long time.... but to me that supports the idea that clipping kills subs... though I see how it means clipping causes overpowering of subs, not the actual clipping itself kills it, as a fully clipped 1000 watt signal from a 500 watt amp wont hurt a 1000 watt sub.. AH-HAH! I think I just had to "say it out loud" lol