sundownz

The SA can take some good burp power... we have done 2.2k on an SA-8 stock copper coil @ 68 hz -- and they use a smaller 2" coil vs 2.5" on the bigger SA

The v.2 does everything the v.1 does.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/Russia/Russia_Magazine.pdf Full PDF of the Magazine -- the the Mazda on Page 61 - 65 Nice cover shot too !

As previously discussed I'm working on a 1000-watt line -- I've had motor samples for some time... now I have full samples with production equivalent soft parts on the way. As of now I still have work to do in order to dial the specs in just right -- I have another coil / gap variation to test with. I am getting a pair of samples as they sit in to test with the soft parts then I'll be testing the last variation... then likely will be ready to start making 12s at that time. Cosmetically looks nearly identical to the SA-12 with the exception of a 20mm wider magnet, a different spider for the 3" coil, and double tinsel leads. You will note it has the new ventilation / spacer ring on it too. This line will fill the gap from the SA series to the Z series very nicely As you may have guessed by the name... this line will eventually feature a frame similar to our X-8 once all the sizes are tooled up. For now it will utilize the 4-spoke like the SA series.

After getting several e-mails and calls about Sensitivity of subwoofers and seeing quite a bit of forum action regarding sensitivity I've decided to post this up... Sensitivity does not = Efficiency on a subwoofer on LOW bass. This is regarding industry standard sensitivity measured at 1khz -- this is where the spec is measure on 99.9% of speakers in the world. Hoffman's Iron Law dictates that out of sensitivity, small box size, and low-end extension you can pick two and the other suffers. In car audio, especially, you want small box and good low-end so sensitivity will typically be lower than a home audio woofer -- where you can use a large box and then have both high sensitivity and good low-end. Since we have done quite a bit of SA-8 testing recently I'll use it as an example for the rest of the discussion. Some recent SA-8 testing results to demonstrate this... measured in Sean's CRX in a box tuned in the mid 30s: SA-8 / CCAW Coil (83.42 dB 1w/1m) D2 : Frequency / Power / SPL 25 - 430 - 123.9 30 - 400 - 127.4 35 - 300 - 129.0 40 - 210 - 129.6 45 - 120 - 128.7 50 - 90 - 128.5 SA-8 / Copper Coil Stock (78.6 dB 1w/1m) D2 : 25 - 470 - 125.0 30 - 240 - 131.1 35 - 140 - 132.9 40 - 100 - 132.6 45 - 170 - 130.7 50 - 270 - 129.3 Take note low-bass fans... at 30 Hz the copper driver with nearly 5 dB less sensitivity is using 60% of the power and is 3.7 dB louder. So... which one is more EFFICIENT on sub-bass by the real definition... output per watt. The CCAW coil doesn't pull ahead in real efficiency until out of the really low sub-bass region @ 50 Hz. So... sensitivity should at least pan out in maximum SPL, right ? We put in the SPL box tuned very high and still... not as much effect as you might imagine... the CCAW coil achieved 151.0 dB @ 1310 watts and the copper 149.9 dB @ 1600 watts -- not nearly as much as one would imagine by the 5 dB sensitivity different, huh ? Even at lower power... both drivers at 250-watts we have 144.9 on the CCAW and 143.3 on the Copper -- just 1.4 dB down at 68 Hz... for a HUGE gain down low. Is the higher sensitivity driver a better choice for peak SPL ? Yep -- that extra 1.5 dB will win the show... but is it worth a nearly 5 dB loss at 30 Hz (adjusted for power difference the actual loss is about 5dB) for a daily system ? In the minds of most car audio enthusiasts that would be a HUGE "NO SIR!" ----- This testing was done in-house for my own purposes of product development and not to simply prove a point... but since the point needs to be made I have decided to share it. Product design is a balancing act... with an 8" woofer on a standard diameter spider landing you need a certain amount of stiffness to hold up to what people do to drivers in the real world. On a driver like the SA-8 by the time you get to that level of stiffness a bit of additional mass is needed to drop the FS to a reasonable level so we used a copper coil to get there. Can I soften up the CCAW driver spider a bit and help the low-end ? Sure can -- and we'll be testing that too. The sacrifice is you end up with a less mechanically rugged driver that, in terms of VAS, wants a bigger box while at the same time the bigger box further compromises mechanical power handling. In terms of the SA-8 we are working on different spider tools and so forth to try and get around some of these things. So far the combination we have is the most effective for what most people need / want. If we end up being able to improve on it without sacrificing durability then a v.2 SA-8 will be born.

Come on by

For the month of March our SAX multi-channel amps are on special ! SAX-125.2 : Regular - $250 MAP SALE - $205 SAX-100.4 : Regular - $385 MAP SALE - $345 SAX-200.4 : Regular - $815 MAP SALE - $650 You can order from your favorite local or online dealer OR you can Paypal me at [email protected] to order. This is for the month of March only and in the USA only. For Alaska and Hawaii SH quotes e-mail me -- otherwise the above are shipped in the continental 48 states.

Essentially the only real T/S change is the Le -- which dropped from 7.70 mH to 4.85 mH on the D4 coil

You guys know I am always working to improve things! As good as the SA series is I sat down and though, "How can I make them better ?" A few things came to mind on the 10/12/15 design : 1) I tested a different rear pole flare shape that is a little more efficient so I will be implementing that. As if the SA needed more thermal capacity, right ? 2) I am going to add a magnet ID shorting ring -- almost nothing in this price range has a shorting ring (the Type-R is one of the few I can think of). This will reduce inductive distortion and produce a bit less reactive impedance rise. So these are some things I'll be working on introducing to the SA series around summer time. The shorting ring is the first revision that concerns me at all mixing with old models... most likely will not be a huge problem to mix, though. So the part number will not be changed to v.2 The shorting ring is actually quite expensive but I am using my newest cost savings from bringing in higher quantity to keep the cost the same for customers. To date the SA series price has only changed about 6 dollars from the original pricing despite the constant improvements. Should you wait for these if you are in the market now ? Most likely not -- while both are improvements they won't be night and day different. ----- Now... for the SA-8 I have been testing some things for a little while now... I'm not quite done but I've come up with a few things. I am still in the testing phase... but these changes include a different frame, newly custom tooled spider, and possibly an all new coil design. For now I'll just post a picture of an early sample with the new frame as more testing is in order for these revisions. The new spider hasn't made it's way to me yet so data is limited If all of this works out this WILL be a v.2 unit and not compatible with older units -- but no worries... I have several hundred of the current models on the way for anyone that needs a match to have their chance. v.2 SA-8 First Sample... this one I was testing the new frame and coil -- the new spider is not done yet.

D2 specs with a very short break-in period : Re : 3.94 ohms Fs : 34.62 Hz Qes : 0.52 Qms : 4.34 Qts : 0.46 Le : 3.57 mH Vas : 17.16 L BL : 23.28 NA Mms : 328.7 g Cms : 64.27 uM/N SPL : 83.11 dB 1w/1m Xmax : 19.0mm one-way Bl^2/Re : 138

I got my samples in with shorting rings and new pole flares -- I will be breaking them in to measure T/S within a week or so in order to get "official" updated TS for the site for SA-10/12/15 : * NEW FLARE * OLD FLARE The flare will also allow people to immediately identify if an SA has a shorting ring or not -- as only SA-10/12/15s with this style flare will have a shorting ring.

Essentially what I'm saying is stating the "efficiency is horrible" is not correct; as sensitivity does not = efficiency -- at least not on sub-bass material. Which is why I posted the linked thread originally If you climb to over 50-60 Hz then, sure, a sub with a higher "sensitivity" would gain in output -- but for what people want in a true car audio sub-woofer (small box / tremendous low-end) this type of parameter set works great. It's very similar to the SA line in parameters.

Please read : What your statement should read is... "Looks like it will have great bottom end in a small box"

D4 specs with a very short break-in period : Re : 7.00 ohms Fs : 34.61 Hz Qes : 0.57 Qms : 4.45 Qts : 0.51 Le : 5.05 mH Vas : 17.39 L BL : 29.23 NA Mms : 324 g Cms : 65.1 uM/N SPL : 82.7 dB 1w/1m Xmax : 19.0mm one-way Bl^2/Re : 122 With break-in the Fs and Qts will drop a bit as well.

All items listed before sold... will update again some time soon.

That has been gone for year now! i know it has been...im just giving jake a hard time for not bringing it back Still working on it

It is something I have considered but haven't seen a huge market for at this time since we offer multiple coil configurations people can get the power they need @ 1 ohm.

Some of the parts were completed -- I am awaiting pictures and information. As with anything really cool it is taking longer than expected

If we are super busy, like right now, it takes longer to ship items and/or to respond to inquires.

We haven't re-coned any E8 v.2s yet. Have alot of inquiries on v.1 re-cones but I need the adapter made for the frame which I haven't had time yet.

Yes, if you want a quote email me.

Oh, I meant I was paying Sundown. So that's why I'm so surprised you giving up somebody paying you to work. Shame. My feelings are hurt and I will not work under these conditions. I don't remember that -- did we really talk about that ? Lol. No. I kid I kid. I was hoping when I said I would pay to work you would figure it out. But if I would of lied, does that mean your down with me coming to work? *laughs* Anymore I can barely remember stuff as so many things are going on - probably could have fooled me

Oh, I meant I was paying Sundown. So that's why I'm so surprised you giving up somebody paying you to work. Shame. My feelings are hurt and I will not work under these conditions. I don't remember that -- did we really talk about that ?

At the moment it varies alot -- we can be absolutely slammed and going crazy for a week then be fine the next

Paid internship ?! Never said anyone was getting money *laughs* Anyway we are talking to him about working at Sundown over the summer -- might work out great as we'll need some extra help testing speakers and unloading trucks