sundownz

Love the install !

153.6 at the show in Macon over the weekend -- between my HU acting up and varying weather conditions I was down some. But still not bad !

We've found in our testing so far that the v.2s don't do as well at 50+ Hz in their current prototype state so I dropped v.1s back in on a 4500D @ 0.5 and 16v Here is what we got so far ! Legal, sealed, on the dash. (I will be building some revised v.2s soon to get everything in check for production)

IMO... JL makes a fine product and they are a very innovative company. Their pricing is appropriate for their target market -- they sell a TON of woofers. They have an impressive list of patents if you search around... and I'm sure it costs alot to maintain their facilities as well. Can you find better bang for the buck ? Sure... but I don't see JL going anywhere any time soon and I look forward to seeing their new stuff. Not necessarily my cup of tea but very respectable products.

Just got off the phone with my local machine shop... looks like they can make the copper tube I need @ 75mm long x 74mm ID x 76mm OD Also looks like I can get a 77mm diameter coil former from Precision... and that I have a nifty motor here already in stock with a 40mm tall top plate. Can anyone guess what I'm doing ? Hint : When I'm done with the first one it's going in my daily driver.

I plan to use a coil with fatter wire for testing in the near future -- I think it will be what I go with in the end. Will drop Qts and Fs Just a question here ... please don't get mad. Is your vehicle set up for Sound Quality ?? Meaning the front stages and images correctly ... just asking because the judges this year in Sound Quality competition was more interested in the blending of the system with more of a "Up front on the dash" bass verses raw bass power sounding clear and dynamic ... Given the correct ported enclosure tuning and installation ... How do you think this Driver would preform ?? Do you think it would give the correct definition when the (MECA) Chesky test tracks are played with the stand up bass ?? again, please ... just a question ... My current vehicle is not extremely SQ oriented -- haven't had the time to really mess with it in recent years. A few of my prior rides were set up very nicely for SQ in terms of imaging, staging, etc. I am not concerned with what any judge thinks (subjective) about SQ with this design -- I am concerned with making a driver with objectively low BL, suspension, and inductive distortion. Due to these factors the driver can be used in any setup that is concerned with low distortion and high output. As long as the driver is properly integrated in the system it should do extremely well in any SQ setup as the driver itself will reproduce the signal that is put into it very accurately.

Still no new updates. Haven't forgotten about the project but it's heavily delayed -- until then we have the SA-8 v.2

I plan to use a coil with fatter wire for testing in the near future -- I think it will be what I go with in the end. Will drop Qts and Fs

Congrats to Jon Kennedy for winning IASCA Southeast Regionals SQ in the PRO class with a pair of SA-8s -- he is a part of Team First Amendment. He also won a Bass Boxing challenge presented by Team Epsilon/PPI against Chad Romano -- a friendly challenge, of course! They plan to continue the friendly challenge at SBN this year :thumbsup: Jon runs PPI amplifiers and an old school Boston 3-way set. I am going to get some more details from him on the actual bass boxing scores and the install but for now I'll share the photos I have -- the box is a 4th order that fits under his truck seats.

My frequency dropped a few Hz with the v.2 models in there -- likely due to the softer suspension on them. These also have a good bit more displacement so the effective box is smaller. So I may need to re-design the box and/or port a bit to really optimize these guys Good news is I'm within a few tenths at the same power at a lower frequency so I'm very pleased. What I am looking for is a better max score when more power is applied due to significantly more suspension travel. Another plus of the v.2 design is that I can add a single extra spider for SPL if I like as the bottom spider has no leads so it can easily be stacked on -- this idea failed in the v.1 (made one for TommyK) as I had to add TWO extra spiders as they came in packs. I think one extra would be useful in some SPL apps More testing to come with time on that + a newly designed SPL coil for this motor.

Vent ring allows me more flexibility to tailor the air-flow velocity, direction, and entry point. I can change it by just changing a ring as well rather than re-tooling my basket. If you note it comes in closer to the coil than if the basket was drilled or vented... also if you grab an SA driver the vents in the ring are NOT straight in, they have some shaping to them.

I made this reply over on CACO -- figured I'd re-post it with good info : http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/1454648-post75.html ---------- Yep! Expected MAP price is $600 even for the 12" model, which I assume will be the most popular. The NS v.2 motor already has two shorting rings as well -- so it has a triple shorting design now in NS-Q form. Underhung was for a more linear BL -- so basically what you said more technically The spider was made softer as the under-hung coils is SO light it had to be to get the desired specifications -- in my testing the single NS style spider also has no issue handling my 1kw amp. Another cool thing about under-hung is that they drop off drastically after their linear boundaries in BL. So the sub is basically incapable of over-driving the suspension. It actually works out phenomenally well with the ultra-tall top plate on the NS v.2 -- the FEA simulation shows a KILLER BL "curve" -- there is literally almost no BL shift whatsoever for almost 15mm one-way (where most of your SQ listening will happen).

In my humble opinion you would probably have as much or more success with a driver like that in the HT/HA market as you would in car audio. Off of just a cursory observation of general habits, I think a lot of car audio SQ guys might shy away from a $600 SQ woofer that's 75lbs and nearly a foot deep (guessing the dimensions). HT guys might not care as much and there's a lot more offerings in that price range in that market, making the price less of a concern. Again, just my humble opinion. Noted. I have considered doing HT woofers before for that reason

Gonna see how the v.2s like this box Sadly one hole is slightly too small so I won't get to play with it tonight... but probably at some point tomorrow I will get to do so. Have to get home for the night tonight!

Also... DHL did break one so I took that time to cut it down to show a few design / build details of this driver : * Nobody likes to see this ! Felt like someone shot my dog when I saw that. * Cone out... nice view of the double leads. * Bottom triple joint ring that we all know and love from the original SA-8 * Second triple joint ring between the spiders too -- I like rugged ! * Pole cap much like the SD-2 models * Steel ring is bolted in behind each leg of the frame (8 bolts to hold the spacer assembly and spiders in place) * Internal logos and the inside view of the venting ring. Focuses the air on the coil better as well as building the proper velocity. * RIP SA-8 v.2 Frame...

Another video... this time with clamped power as well

If you don't hear any mechanical noises you are good -- they have a ton of motor clearance.

For reference it was CRANKED -- I'm not sure what it would take to get that kind of throw in a box but it would be ALOT of power. At levels that the original SA-8 would be making bad mechanical noise this one is dead silent -- I was excited so I pushed it as far as I could right away in the video *laughs*

I haven't been this excited since I got my first amp prototypes in 2006...

This is the SA-8 v.2 -- the X-8 is an even more dramatic design. $185 is the estimated MAP price... not bad, IMO!

I am super excited... just unboxed the first one and took pictures as fast as I could... will have a free-air video up soon... more testing ASAP : * Newest @ left to the oldest @ right.

Still working on that.

So who would honestly buy one or know someone who would ? MAP would be around $600 from an authorized dealer... but in the SQ realm that is not a ton for a reference level SQ 12" woofer. I do plan to Klippel it once I get one built with the thicker coil.

It's about time someone gets the MASSIVE difference between a dealer based company and a direct company. Thank you. SUNDOWN is not charging more than the "other guys" for amps -- but guess what ? Dealers make money too. I also don't think many people realize how many things we do for customers for after-sales support and warranty... trade-ins, upgrades, so on and so forth. We've done this for YEARS. I've had customers come back that bought a 1500D in 2006 that finally gave out and I'll take it on for credit on a new amp through the "discounted replacement" program. Things like this also give our products MUCH better re-sale value than many other brands. What drives the majority of the industry outside of the forums ? DEALERS. And who are the guys that hold SPL shows ? DEALERS. I'm sure many of you guys enjoy competitions... without the dealer base we wouldn't have them. I won't apologize for supporting the car audio industry... we set out to be a dealer based company and to support the guys that go out there and try to make a living doing what they love and we have stuck to it despite all of the ultra low-cost direct online companies coming up over the years... and we've done nothing but grow over the years despite any of this. And yes -- several of our original models were based on "open boards" -- guess how many of our Class-D amps we have had custom tooled for us now ? All of them. All of our multi-channels have custom tooled crossover sub-boards on them as well. We don't believe in just sticking with the same thing... we believe in constant improvements. If none of this at all matters to you -- that is completely fine with me and you can choose to buy anything you want What I don't appreciate is when people try to claim that WE charge outrageous prices for our stuff... no, we do not... but the fact is as a company that supports dealers and distributors the end cost will end up higher. Period. Compare Sundown to Memphis, JL, etc at a local retailer... and again, if you don't care about that, or extra warranty, or upgrade programs, or better re-sale values, you are MORE than welcome to buy whatever product suits your budget the best and I hope you enjoy whatever you buy -- car audio is a HOBBY and everyone should have fun doing it or re-consider their hobby, IMO. PS: Most of the direct brands do not work with Zenon -- they have moved over to the same build-house as AQ.

Correct. The 8s have a different motor with 2" coil