sundownz

Enjoy !

I measured a production v.2 and a newly re-built v.3 with the final compliance side-to-side with the same amount of play time (neither is fully broken-in). Just to compare... looks like we nailed the stiffness based on FS... and we see a drop in Qts due to the higher BL (also higher sensitivity) : BL^2/RE = 70.17 BL^2/RE = 85.78 ----- I don't trust the Woofer Tester as an "end all be all" of spec measurement either so don't read too far into it... but comparing on the same day back-to-back I can tell if my design goals are being met. The spec on our web-site for the SA-8 v.2 was done with a Klippel machine after full break-in for reference.

Got my first prototypes in for the v.3 revision of the SA-8 -- it took quite a bit of consideration to figure out how to make some improvements to the design but I think we are on the right track : * Newly tooled surround with an improved shape / slightly bigger overall size... this is a new shape I have been testing with for a while that is a bit more linear than the old shape. It allows a small but noticeable amount of extra throw. * We removed the vent ring to reduce the total depth by 10mm -- since this reduces the cooling capability a bit we added gap vents (next photo). I did use appropriately sized drilled vent holes to maintain a degree of pressure in the under-spider cavity to help push air to the gap vents and keep velocity high. I tweaked and tuned the vent hole size on the SD-2 8" model already. * A second but major benefit is this will help improve QC pass rates by reduced spider to top plate distance; thus reducing the chance for coil tick (fewer yard sale units thus steadier inventory). * The magnet stack increased to 50mm from 40mm -- and we reduced the back plate from 25mm to 15mm (removed the 10mm bump) to keep overall motor depth the same. A marginal increase in BL will be seen. * New magnet boot isn't tooled yet but will be for production. * It's a tight fit in this motor due to the thick shorting ring... to get the surface area I wanted I used 16 gap vents @ 2.5mm each as wider vents wouldn't fit between the pole and shorting ring. Also each vent is flared to keep the flow quieter. ---------- There are a few other tweaks to the way the suspension goes together, standard XL leads, and a few other little tricks in the motor that you cannot see -- all in all should be a nice little upgrade to the SA-8 driver. I still need to tweak the stiffness a bit as it ended up a bit too stiff on the first two prototypes... so that is still under-way. I expect them to come out some time around the end of the 1st quarter next year (so end of March or so). Until then the v.2 will be in full stock and shipping as normal.

If you are more concerned with ported output I'd go with the SD-2s as I am concentrated on sealed performance in the SD-3

Either surround allows the driver to exceed it's linear x-max by BL (70% BL)

http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/sundown-audio/166968-sundown-new-platform-spl-parts-production-started.html Originally posted back in March on CACO when I started testing. A better name for the new surround is "Standard Roll" as it certainly isn't just for SPL -- we'll likely start calling it that instead to avoid confusion Either way -- they are now fully in stock and can be ordered on new X, Z v.4, NS v.3, and TEAM drivers and also on re-cones for any of these drivers (TEAM already uses it's own spider; so those aren't compatible with the TEAM). -------------------- Hey guys, Some of you may remember -- or you may not remember -- that I have been planning SPL parts for the new "platform" all along. I have had them designed for some time but I had to get at least a somewhat solid footing with the "stock" models before going down this road as well -- after all; the stock woofers really show off the platforms ability to move like crazy and dig down deep into the low frequencies. That being said -- lets re-introduce the SPL parts. They can be used on the X, Z v.4, NS v.3, or any other driver built with our new frames. ----- 1) New heavy duty "stackable" SPL spiders... same material and similar geometry to the NS v.1 / v.2 spiders but available in all of the new larger sizes. There are several advantages to these for SPL applications. * They are lighter. The spider "packs" on stock woofers require more layers for a givens stiffness and the layers are all permanently adhered together over their entire surface area with a flexible adhesive. The extra spider material and the adhesive both have mass. * They are more consistent over time and temperature range in terms of their stiffness. The "packs" can change FS a bit based on heat or cold as the bonding adhesive will loosen up or stiffen based on temperature. * They tighten up more over stroke. This leads to the desirable climb in FS over stroke for SPL applications. It also gives a more "traditional" sound for those that may not like the ultra linear sound of the new drivers. * There is more adjust-ability as we can stack however many or however few you want. ----- 2) New cone bodies impregnated with more fiberglass for additional strength (minimal mass difference) combined with much smaller "high profile" surrounds. So they are a bit stronger; which all of the new cones are already geometrically very strong due to how deep they are anyway. The BIGGEST difference is that our massive surrounds are heavy -- they are the single heaviest part in our moving assembly. So these surrounds will shave off MMS to get your FS up. The secondary difference is that this profile is a little less linear -- it is based on the Z v.3 18" surround shape; this shape tightens more over stroke than a normal half-roll or even our "mega-roll" surrounds. In SPL this extra tightening helps raise FS over stroke. In our Terra the Z v.3 cone/surround was always MUCH louder than a half-roll due to this fact. As mentioned with the spiders... this surround will lend itself to a more "traditional" sound as well -- making the new platform drivers sound more like a Z v.3 or other driver in that class. These are obviously not capable of FULLY utilizing our new frames full capacity but using my conservative calculations they are good for anywhere from 3 to 3.5" p-p reliably depending on the size. They are still pretty big surrounds so they can work reliably with the big spider packs just not as dramatic as our "mega roll" surrounds. Z v.3 18" surround is 26mm x 25mm -- which most people are familiar with and it's a very capable design. New SPL 10" = 30mm x 28.85mm New SPL 12" = 33mm x 31.75mm New SPL 15" = 35mm x 33.5mm New SPL 18" = 35mm x 33.5mm The 15" and 18" offer the same surround size just like the "mega rolls" since they use the same spider size. ----- So basically we are going to shift the response upward in static T/S terms by reducing mass and increasing stiffness -- and also shift it upwards even further over stroke by using parts that tighten up more as they get moving. You can also choose to use the SPL Cone with standard spiders... or the SPL spiders with the standard "mega roll" cones as well. So many options! -------------------- ** 10 Inch SPL Roll vs. Mega-Roll ** 12 Inch SPL Roll vs. Mega-Roll ** 15 Inch SPL Roll vs. Mega-Roll ** 18 Inch SPL Roll vs. Mega-Roll ** "SPL" Spiders -- these are like extra large NS v.1/v.2 Spiders

Built up an X-10 with the Standard Roll "SPL" style surround and did a quick video today. Fs is increased to ~46 Hz compared to ~28 Hz stock -- this is similar to the Z v.3 series 12s.

I wouldn't go as far as saying SOON but I'll be working hard on it

The tool is done and the very first unit rolled out of the mold yesterday. I will have a sample to play with next week !!! This one is currently patent pending (our 8, 10, 12, and 15 are already patented) -- ETA for full stock will be Jan-Feb of 2015. This frame is ~8.3" tall, supports 6" p-p excursion, and up to a 12" spider (also have 10" and 9.25" landings)... it weighs in at 10-11 lbs (I'll weigh it myself when it gets here). I will finally be comfortable making TEAM 18s at that point. The main bolt pattern is a new, bigger pattern for coils larger than 4" in diameter. For all current designs we have a cast aluminum adapter piece that attaches to the base for a standard 127mm bolt pattern. All current products will still use a 10" spider and current surround sizes -- future motors that support the additional throw allowed by the basket will move up to the 12" spider landing at that time and will also receive a newly tooled surround to mate up to that (no ETA to announce yet for that). Anyway... it's been a long time coming; enjoy the photos!

Woops... brain fart it's actually only 5mm total shallower -- too many protos on the mind! Still a small reduction Took a photo side by side to show the surround difference too:

Some photos mocked up to a TEAM motor along with the bolt pattern adapter in place: In the future bigger motors will have the bigger 8-bolt pattern on them in addition to the 127mm pattern; so we'll only need to use the adapter on 3" coil motors. But the adapter ensures we can mate this frame up to any of our existing motors on the market.

They will definitely NOT handle more power / abuse than the SD-2 models -- the suspension is much softer. They will sound better and get lower in sealed boxes than the SD-2s -- by a good margin. I will be starting production on the 10s shortly... 90-days or so after that.

This runs until September 19th 2014 -- we will do the drawing on the 20th. Anyone that donates to the MS ride fundraiser will be eligible for a drawing to win a stereo package : 2x Obsidian Audio 10" D4 1x Sundown SCV-1500D Amplifier The donation page is here : Bike MS: Cox Atlanta Ride 2014: Ms. Terri Louise Latimer - National MS Society Our friend Terri is doing her annual ride and that is her donation page -- when you donate write your name and "Sundown" next to it -- as we will use the names from the "Donor Honor Roll" to do the drawing. You must have YOUR name AND "Sundown" to qualify for the drawing. Every $5 donated gives you 1 entry in the drawing. You can get as many entries as you like based on how big your donation is. Many of your are familiar with Nick Lemons -- the owner / founder of Stereo Integrity and Obsidian Audio -- he's been a friend of mine since college and was diagnosed with MS several years ago. We have donated and taken part in this for the previous two years; this is our third year taking part.

I put in the $699 on behalf of our raffle winner, Erik Hrinishin, today -- since he graciously wanted to donate his prize winnings back into the MS Ride fund raiser!

Did the final Outlaw test of the day and hit my estimate : Derrick took a video of this run as well :

Did some SPL testing in the Jeep with the 18" version of the "Magic Box" this morning -- it is slightly less efficient than the 15" version but still does well. I am pleased with the results -- will continue to push for more score as time permits :

** Score on the right is legal score with more power; seems like it may be tapped out now... but will try a little more later. ** This is what we dropped in for testing; basically battery limited now.

Tweaked it a little more -- this is going to be it without getting a "real" power setup in here. Seeing ~11.1v at the amp terminals so not going to get more juice as it sits. May drop in some more batteries and bigger amps some time this week to see where the SA-18 tops out

Winner was selected ! See the video for details on the drawing =)

We did the drawing; I will post the video up to announce the winner once it is done uploading to YouTube.

(9-23-14) : Updated with SPL kits for new platform drivers as well as SA-18s and a few other small updates to the text.

To order a drop-in re-cone assembly e-mail [email [email protected]][email protected] -- do not e-mail my "sundownz" address if you need a quick response.To reduce back-and-forth e-mails ALWAYS include the following : 1) What you are ordering -- Model, Coil Configuration, Etc. 2) If you already have a basket or not; please check below for any special notes. 3) If you need ANY custom options please specify up front. 4) !!! YOUR ADDRESS AND NAME !!! 5) A picture of what you have goes a long way to be SURE we are talking about the same thing. 6) When you send payment include ALL details of your drop-in on the notes(model, size, coil configuration, options, etc) (Revised 9-23-14) : IT WILL TAKE, ON AVERAGE, 1-2 weeks for a built item like a drop-in to be completed. It may take longer depending on how busy our build department is and/or if all of the parts are currently in stock -- please keep this in mind. Updates will NOT be sent along the way -- an update will occur when the product is shipped. You can e-mail us to check on the status; [email [email protected]][email protected]; an exact completion time is not available but we can confirm if it is done, in process, or is in the shipping area. These are fully BUILT real "drop-in" assemblies -- you shim them out, glue them in, and attach a dust cap so there is a bit of a lead time. We do not ship out a box of loose parts! Thanks for your patience . ---------- Update (8-26-14) : There are a few guy out there that can build our drop-ins (OEM style or customized) as they are authorized to buy our parts if you are in a hurry and our lead time is too long -- you must order through them and do all contact / follow-up with them. Doing business with any of the following builders is completely separate from doing business direct with us and their pricing may vary from ours; but I can say we have done business with all of these guys for many years now and we are comfortable with their work. They all have good feedback on the forums as well : David Moore ("TeamPSI" on CACO) -- Mississippi -- <Info @ FixMySpeaker.com> Corey Dean ("SPLaudio" on Forums) -- New York -- <splaudio78 @ hotmail.com> David Leib ("FLAstrongman" on CACO) -- Florida -- <flastrongman @ gmail.com> ---------- EDIT 8/30/11 : WE CANNOT WARRANTY DIY RE-CONE ASSEMBLY ISSUES. Read and understand this -- if you are not 110% sure about re-coning the driver ask us or send it in. We can ONLY stand behind labor that we perform. Manufacturing defects in the kit itself are of course our responsibility but installation is 100% the customer responsibility. This includes ticking, broken parts, etc. EDIT 10/14/13 : MAKE SURE to check your re-cone BEFORE installing it for complete accuracy. This includes using a DMM to make sure you received the correct voice coil configuration. As this is a DIY process everyone performing a drop-in should have access to a multi-meter. If there is a mistake on the kit we need to know BEFORE you glue it all in place!!! Once the kit is glued into place we will not be be liable for any errors in it's construction. CHECK IT OVER FIRST. If it is not correct we will issue a call tag for it and build you the correct kit for you ASAP. Also... any CHANGES to a drop-in order must be done in the form of a new order. We will no longer CHANGE an existing drop-in order without refunding the original payment and creating an entirely new order so that ALL of your details are IN WRITING on the payment slip from Paypal. There will be absolutely NO changes to drop-in orders on the phone!!! Changing existing orders and making any adjustments on the phone open up too many possibilities for errors. ---------- This thread over-rides any prior quotes or costs. These prices are the same for everyone; Team, dealer, customer, etc. All costs + SH charges. ---------- KITS DO NOT include shims or glue. White paper trimmed / stacked to spec works perfectly for shimming -- use enough where it is snug but not so tight you can barely get the coil in the gap. For glue we suggest Loc-Tite 5-minute epoxy with mixing tubes to glue the spider to the frame (MAKE SURE to sand it first) and we suggest Amazing Goop or E6000 for the surround and dust cap (sand frame for surround and rough up the glue surface of the dust cap with sand paper as well). These can be purchased from Lowes or Home Depot very commonly and some Wal-Mart and Craft Stores. We can sell CA glue by request but it typically is not very cost effective for the end user. Most kits DO NOT include the solder tabs that attach to the terminals; these should be RE-USED. Simply cut off any heat-shrink (if present) and de-solder the old lead wire from the tab. Make sure the terminal post is still tight; and then re-solder the new lead to the tab. If you require new tabs you will need to order a complete terminal to get them. ---------- The frame price comes with gasket and terminals -- but if you need any plastic spacers those are extra and you must request them. ---------- MODEL -- RE-CONE Price -- FRAME Price E8 v.1 and v.2 Kits are DISCONTINUED (9-23-14) E8 v.3 / v.4 -- $30.00 -- (Frame Not Available) * D2 / D4 Available * Specify v.3 or v.4 E-10 v.1 or v.2 -- $35 -- $10 E-12 v.1 or v.2 -- $35 -- $10 E-15 v.1 or v.2 -- $45 -- $10 * D2 / D4 Available * Specify v.1 or v.2 !!!FOR SA-8 KITS SEE THIS THREAD TO DETERMINE WHAT MODEL YOU HAVE. WE MUST HAVE THIS INFO TO MAKE THE CORRECT KIT!!! SA-8 v.1 or v1.5 -- $32.00 -- $10.00 * MUST SPECIFY v.1 or v1.5 when ordering !!! * D2 / D4 available Stock * CCAW 4-layer D2 or D4 SPL Coils Available No Extra Charge (these are lighter but can still be used daily as the gap is not tighter than stock) SA-8 v.2 -- $50.00 -- $15.00 * D2 / D4 available Stock * CCAW 4-layer D2 or D4 SPL Coils Available No Extra Charge (these are lighter but can still be used daily as the gap is not tighter than stock) * Extra Spiders Available for $5.00 Extra Each for a MAX of SIX (stock is two); DO NOT order extra spiders for anything but SPL SD-2 8 -- $40.00 -- $15.00 * D2 or D4 * You CANNOT change the impedance of your SD-2 8" -- you must order the same coil as it originally had; the D2 and D4 gaps are different. SD-2 10 -- $35.00 -- $15.00 SD-2 12 -- $35.00 -- $18.00 * D2 / D4 available SA-10 -- $40.00 -- $15.00 SA-12 -- $40.00 -- $18.00 SA-15 -- $50.00 -- $21.00 SA-18 -- $75.00 -- $40.00 * SA-10/12/15 add $20.00 for SPL Coils (D1,D2,D4) -- they are 8-layer flat aluminum * D2 / D4 available in stock copper NSv1 12 -- $100.00 -- $25.00 NSv1 15 -- $110.00 -- $30.00 NSv1 18 -- $120.00 -- $40.00 * 3 Layer Spider Pack Stock * Add $10.00 for double leads * Z v.3/X Spider Available No Extra Charge (Black Pack) * Z v.4 Spider Pack Add $10 (Yellow Pack) for 15s and 18s only * NS v.3 Spider Pack Add $20 (Red Pack) for 15s and 18s only * D1 / D2 Available NSv2 12 -- $130.00 -- $25.00 NSv2 15 -- $140.00 -- $30.00 NSv2 18 -- $150.00 -- $40.00 * 3 Layer Spider Pack Stock * Add $10.00 for double leads * Z v.3/X Spider Available No Extra Charge (Black Pack) * Z v.4 Spider Pack Add $10 (Yellow Pack) for 15s and 18s only * NS v.3 Spider Pack Add $20 (Red Pack) for 15s and 18s only * D1 / D2 Available Zv2 12 -- $100.00 -- $25.00 Zv2 15 -- $110.00 -- $30.00 Zv2 18 -- $120.00 -- $40.00 * Copper or Aluminum Coils Available * Z v.3 Spider Pack Now Standard (5/1/12) * MUST USE Z v.3 SPACER * Z v.4 Spider Pack Add $10 (Yellow Pack) for 15s and 18s only * NS v.3 Spider Pack Add $20 (Red Pack) for 15s and 18s only * D1 / D2 Available Z v.3 10" -- $115.00 -- $20.00 Z v.3 12" -- $115.00 -- $25.00 Z v.3 15" -- $125.00 -- $30.00 Z v.3 18" -- $135.00 -- $40.00 * D1 / D2 Available * Add $10 for Z v.4 Spider Pack (15s and 18s Only) * NS v.3 Spider Pack Add $20 (Red Pack) for 15s and 18s only * The 10/12 models use a different coil than the 15/18 models !!!! IMPORTANT NOTE : YOU MUST USE OUR NEWEST 12-spoke 15" FRAMES TO USE THE Z v.3, v.4, X OR NS v.3 SPIDER PACKS !!!! They are 8 3/8" spiders and require a modified top landing. The other spiders for 10/12 and the 18 are compatible with any 12-spoke / 6-spoke that I am aware of. Also -- the NS cone will NOT be offered on ANY drivers with a v.3 style spider pack in 15s or 18s. The v.3 spiders (Z v.3 and NS v.3) can exceed the mechanical limits of the NS style cones in these sizes.

We were out of town all weekend for NOPI but I will be doing the drawing today for the winner of the stereo package =)

To the top! This is the last week to donate as part of the raffle.