Dylan Matlow

Yea... We know that we can use the DBY frame though and it will do *OK* for now. I sent an email to TC sounds about their 6.5" basket considering that it looks like it might support more xmax than our basket find... it is hard to tell though... Here is what it would be used for: *if it will indeed support more excursion than the frame we found we will likely just make a very limited run (50 units) just for us to show off... I would just make a 5.1 home theater setup which would use 10, Matt would likely make a line array (or do something insane with them?) (16-24), I would put some in my car(2), my mom's car(2), a few competitor

I sure hope this isn't someone else's proprietary basket... I don't need ulcers! If it is I'm just going to have another company cast a basket of my own design... What is this 6" TC sounds sub you speak of? I'm curious

Supports 22mm with a .25" thick spacer on the spider landing (or equivalent cup spider)... Sure it isn't as sexy as the other but it gets the job done.

Well I heard back from JBL and we are clear to use this basket: Sweet!

Another year... I'm starting to feel old in my bones... As for this project... We are still waiting to hear back from JBL about that black basket. We have heard that this is indeed an open tooling now but it doesn't hurt to be 100% sure. The Delta baskets are in so we can start work on assembling that project at least... As for the T/s on the sub we will have several different top plate thicknesses and we are considering having several different wire awg and gap widths available in order to give a little bit more variety. Each unit will be made to order As for the omega I want to have at least 2 different top plate thicknesses where you can trade between higher xmax and higher BL. We are also leaning towards having both a light paper cone option and a fairly heavy SiC cone option as well. I am leaning towards moving to a 1.5" diameter voice coil instead of a 1" and up to a 4" OD, 2" ID, .25" thick neo magnet (Insane). ~(82-94dB/w depending on 2/4 ohm light/heavy cone high/lower xmax... We could do something of a more pure extended range driver with 2-3mm of xmax with insane ~96dB/w for home or pro audio only to be used in a 3+ way) We have a 3" diameter voice coil self shielded underhung motor design I happen to rather like for a 6.5" or 8" but it would need a custom basket for a 6.5"... These would be Extended range Midwoofers... 80-90dB/w depending on if its a light paper cone or a heavy SiC cone, if its 2 or 4 ohm (2 ohm being a much higher qes design and takes a hit in sensitivity)... Is a rather nice 8" frame... if only that came in a 6.5" variety... I have also been playing around with two high xmax 8" overhung designs with this basket and rather high inductance. The suspension will be the greatest challenge with these and might ultimately be the limiting factor in terms of clean excursion... In which case we would tone down the motor's xmag a bit The smaller box low frequency brute .4 cuft box, 30hz tuning, good down to the mid 20s... We are looking at inductive rolloff starting at about 180hz with this unit and 30mm of xmax. Needless to say its not going to be the best SQ unit out there... ~80dB/w. ~800W power handling. Copper coil. The other unit suffers from inductive rolloff after about 260hz so it is again strictly a subwoofer. .6-.8 cuft box tuned to ~35hz for car and can attain higher SPL levels... It is kind of a large box for an 8" and it would be natural to move up to a 10" of a different brand unless you just love the idea of all the sound coming from an 8... On the other hand it would make a sick floor standing integrated subwoofer in 1.2-1.5cuft tuned to 22-25hz and a 2nd order Butterworth at 80hz... ~82dB/w and ~1000-1200W power handling. Aluminum Coil. Any input on those overhung 8" subs? They use the same motor, different coils... Keep in mind this is all in the world of theory and naturally some part specs aren

Oh and Kyle check your pm box And do you have AIM/msn/yim by any chance?

I thought it was the JBL gti frame at first but I dont know... Possibly an abandoned mk?

It seems JBL does... Still waiting to hear back from them... As for the "GZ" frame... http://www.icixsound.com/vb/icixnation/images/38_213.jpg It seems that ED is using this frame for their new "SP" sub. Are they out of line in using this basket?

We sure do a basket that supports in the neighborhood of 50-60mm of rearward cone movement without infringing on anyone's products. Does anyone recognize the frame used here? I would rather not use someone else's protected frame: It only supports 52.5mm though... Needless to say we aren't in the position to shell out $20k of tooling. Also does anyone recognize the 6.5" frame? I don't... and its from another company than the "GZ" frame so hopefully its safe... The frame in the picture is from the same company as the frame in question by TC sounds so I'm kinda wary... The nicest 15" frame that the other company has supports 48.5mm of xmax and only comes in a 15" Anyone recognize that? This company actually has .dwg for all of their items so they struck me as a bit more professional and I was leaning towards utilizing them for most of our needs in the future anyway...

You have a PM with my source. I sent you an email on the 14th about this as well. I have every intent on staying in good terms with TC Sounds. Please get in touch with me via email (info *at* ologyaudio.com) or preferably via AIM: OlogyAudio.

Indeed -- I love the idea... Matt grumbled at the extra price per unit and us trying to have the best bang for the buck that we can... I believe that we can have 1/2 of them black chrome and 1/2 of them unfinished without any problem and just charge $10 more/each for the black chrome and see how big of a hit it is . I figure that is a fair price? That way we only need to sell 60 black chromed units to break even on the finish incase its not *that* big of a hit... Or should we just not offer an unfinished option and just have it cost $5 more/each than it would have otherwise? PS. I found a sexy cast basket that will allow for 16.75mm of xmech without a spider landing spacer (maximum of 27.5mm tall cone). Naturally we will trade cone height for xmech with a spacer... What do you think about that one? This would give us a depth of just under 4" for the omega. ~(3.9) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 5 for black chrome...jsut do a black chrome run and add the $5 per driver...that's not all that much... that basket for the omega looks good. wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just a little update -- The Delta frames should be in today (22nd).

It will indeed be focused on, there is no reason not to adress this issue in every way we can. Phase plug & shallow cone... Atleast I'm a fan of a phase plug option at this point. I found a silicon carbide cone, however the mass of the cone alone is a major stumbling block... As is we are looking at between 12-14g for just the SiC cone which is very, very heavy... This would yield between 86-90dB/w depending upon the Q of the driver. We have a quite nice shallow paper cone that is very well behaved for the normal release version of the omega if we can't find a manufacturer of an appropriate SiC cone in time (in the quantity we need at a reasonable price). It can always wait for another future project... I just want to get these out before summer is over!

Yep It is likely going to get more of a following in home audio DIY or for the people going all out anyways and are making kicks, or possibly completely modifying their doors. I could see these being used in pro audio for some high quality monitors or possibly even line arrays as well... There are the rare cars that can manage 4

Indeed -- I love the idea... Matt grumbled at the extra price per unit and us trying to have the best bang for the buck that we can... I believe that we can have 1/2 of them black chrome and 1/2 of them unfinished without any problem and just charge $10 more/each for the black chrome and see how big of a hit it is . I figure that is a fair price? That way we only need to sell 60 black chromed units to break even on the finish incase its not *that* big of a hit... Or should we just not offer an unfinished option and just have it cost $5 more/each than it would have otherwise? PS. I found a sexy cast basket that will allow for 16.75mm of xmech without a spider landing spacer (maximum of 27.5mm tall cone). Naturally we will trade cone height for xmech with a spacer... What do you think about that one? This would give us a depth of just under 4" for the omega. ~(3.9)

I'm interested as well

Yea I know its taking forever... Matt is converting his furnace to an induction furnace, the gas furnace wasn

http://www.mpyreaudio.com/65x2.htm That seems perfect to me... The only problem is I can't seem to find where to get them.

Huge discount? Defiantly At cost? Possibly, I'll see what Matt says. If you can find us a basket to use for the omega -- Free: Sounds good to me! Just get a Dumax report on it

Black chrome -- now that sounds like a nice suggestion. We are rather liking the idea of smco for the high end subwoofers due to its superior thermal stability and high strength... It is kind of pricey when compared against other magnet materials however its worth it if you ask me. The manufacturer didn't seem to have any problem with selling us some frames, I guess I will have to contact TC sounds to make sure they don't have any problems with this... If they do theres always another basket I can't ever remember seeing before that will support 52mm and looks about as sexy... It is even $1 less/each! haha...

This is the Omega, the most excessive 6.5" midbass/wideband driver we could manage for the target price for now. I stress this is an exceptional driver even for dedicated midrange use and not just a brute of a midbass driver! It does very nicely down to 70hz IB in car and 45hz in a ported floor standing speaker at home. It could also be used effectively as a wideband driver with a supertweeter. It comes in 2, 4, and 8 ohm versions. The 8 ohm version has an aluminum phase plug. Here are the t/s for the 2 ohm: Qes = .537 Qms = 3 Qts = .455 Fs = 54.33 hz Vas = 45.88l Xmax = 22mm Re = 1.6 ohms Le = .05mH Sd = 140 cm^2 Bl = 2.3 Tm 93.4 dB/w/m 100.4 dB/2.83v Here are the t/s for the 4 ohm: Qes = .545 Qms = 3 Vas = 45.85l Xmax=22mm Fs = 54.33 Re = 3.2 ohms Le = .03 mH VERY low due to underhung design and 1mm thick copper on the entire pole. Bl = 3.23 Sd = 140 cm^2 93.34 dB/w/m 97.33 dB/2.83v Here are the t/s for the 8 ohm: Qes = .309 Qms = 3 Qts = .28 Fs = 47.87hz Vas = 42.66l Re = 6.4 ohms Le = .06 mH Bl = 6.46 Tm Sd = 135 cm^2 93.83 dB/w/m 94.81 dB/2.83v Thermal power handling is still untested however 125 watts is a very safe guess... I wouldn't be surprised to see 250 due to this former and high temp vc though. Black paper cone Hex aluminum former (patent pending) for better cooling and lower mms for any given rigidity/strength. 10 layer very high temp voice coil The wire itself is rated for 250C sustained 300C peak, the adhesive used maintains full strength until 600C. 1mm thick copper sleeve on the entire pole .5mm thick sleeve on the top plate ID Both sleeves lower inductance and distortion to an extremely low level 3" OD N42 neo magnet Underhung design with the most xmax of any 6.5" driver Xmag is 23mm Xsus is 22mm where the surround comes to a screeching halt, makes some noise as a warning, and if you push it too far it would be the first thing to break. The surround has very little influence to the kms curve until about 20mm after which it quickly becomes the dominating restoring force. The 5.75" diameter spider will give quite a nice looking kms curve, I suspect the best of any 6.5" or 8" in production at the moment. It sounds *modeless* at least until 4 khz and still sounds quite good full range (good untill between 10-14khz). We will get full FR and distortion measurements in a week or 2 when we get the first production baskets in

2.6" deep 6.5" with 11.5mm one way 6.5" midbass/midrange good untill 7khz. The 4 ohm has an f3 of 53hz IB. .4-.7cuft suggested for kicks The 8 ohm extends to 40hz in a ported alignment 1.4 cuft tuned to 38hz. Or to 58hz in a ported alignment 0.6 cuft tuned to 50hz While this is a very exceptional midbass, the Omega is superior both in terms of midrange quality and output full range. This design was created since we realize not everyone can fit the omega... This mid also has a black paper cone Aluminum former (non hexy) Very high temp 10 layer coil (250C, 300C max wire with 600C adhesive) The Delta also comes in both a 4 and 8 ohm variety and is self shielded for use in home audio or car audio. The 8 ohm version has an aluminum phase plug. Fs = 44.49 Hz Qms = 3 Vas = 44.54 liters Cms = 1.6 mm/N Mms = 8 g Rms = 0.745 kg/s Xmax = 11.5 mm P-Dia = 133.5 mm Sd = 140 sq.cm P-Vd = 0.161 liters Qes = 0.744 Re = 3.2 ohms Le = .06mH BL = 3.1 N/A Qts = 0.596 1-W SPL = 89.26 dB These are the t/s for the 8 ohm version: Fs = 39.79 Hz Qms = 3.02 Vas = 44.54 liters Cms = 1.6 mm/N Mms = 10 g Rms = 0.828 kg/s Xmax = 11.5 mm P-Dia = 133.5 mm Sd = 140 sq.cm P-Vd = 0.161 liters Qes = 0.417 Re = 6 ohms Le = .11 mH Z = 8 ohms BL = 6 N/A Qts = 0.366 1-W SPL = 90.32 dB The 4 ohm is $72/ea The 8 ohm is $75/ea These prices are for the preorder only, which will begin when the webpage is updated.

Weren't you the one always going on about how npdang is retarded and the XXX's sounded great crossed at 2khz ? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nah, the absolute highest I'd take them and still sound unstressed is around 1.6kHz... Now having a correct match, and hearing it... personally I'll keep them @1.2kHz. nG <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My .02 based on the numbers... Both the extremis and XXX do nicely at a 1.2khz xover point (4th order would be best...) The bump in the FR at 1khz is to a large extent a measurement artifact. The null at 1.7khz though is a soft cone edge mode that happens to be particularly nasty as far as they come... Ideally I would like this mode at least 20dB down, however since it is a distortion mostly on the time domain instead of nonlinear distortion I could see with settling for ~10dB down being good enough considering this is a car we are talking about... On the other hand I do not like the idea of using the XT19 with an xover point under 2.5khz or so 4th order... 2-2.2khz could be managed with an elliptical xover at reasonable volumes though I still wouldn't suggest it... It will start taking on a harsher characteristic as the distortion products climb... PS the Dayton RS drivers are very nice

Prices are indeed entry pricing. Any other views or is small > high quality a consensus? As for smaller high quality parts... We are working on it but a nice price tag would be attached...

Well it was $299/$429... Delta/Omega -- though don't be surprised if the prices adjust some... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I assume that it would work fine active as well? What just for the drivers? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> $130/ea on the raw Omegas -- There is no reason you can't just use them active

Yes you could compare the two... The Delta's f3 (anechoic -- Obviously you will get some gain in car and the f3s will drop for both...) is almost an octave lower when installed IB... ~54hz vs ~90hz. Needless to say they will have different overall sounds. The AA poly midrange will have a lower f3 in a sealed box smaller than .3cuft when compared to the Delta The Delta wins in .3cuft and larger... There is also a peak above Fb ranging from 2-3.2 dB in .3-.6 cuft boxes that gives the effect of some extra slam in the midbass. The Delta has a very shallow mounting depth Xmax is the same Both have copper sleeve on pole Paper vs Poly... The AA is less expensive. That is pretty much the run down... I'd call them comparable, they are both very inexpensive for what you get... It just depends on what your goals are which you want... We traded performance in boxes smaller than .3cuft for more sensitivity and lower f3s IB or in moderate-large sealed boxes