ssh

Either way, your still resorting to a rudimentary method for comparison. Pretty sure that's all he's asking for, is a basic comparison, like, what to expect? Is it worth doing? Why does it seem you are posting only to be negative and try to make yourself seem more intelligent, where you are actually doing just the opposite...still curious how you think comparing output of two amps on same load at assumingly same voltage is apples to oranges.... I'm not trying to be negative, I just wanted to point out a flaw that unfortunately effects the very thing the OP is looking at. I never said comparing amplifier outputs with the same load is apples to oranges, I said comparing amplifiers with different loads. I did however say "either way", which would imply that even if the loads were the same, you are still using a flawed method for comparison. Logically one could think that you could max out each amplifier with the same load, with the same equal clipping, and measure the output. Then it would be a fair comparison? Perhaps this could work, I don't know. ---------------------------------------------- Sorry OP for cluttering your thread with my pompous thoughts. Well hell, Ill just assume with a solid electrical at 1ohm, im putting out 3000 watts. Problem solved. I have one last pompous remark. If you've ever heard: "if you double the power, best case scenario you can yield a 3dB gain", it's from: 10log(power1/power2). Perception of loudness varies with frequency, and the change in loudness varies with the intial level. As the louder the initial level is, the more noticeable the change will be. At low levels, sub bass 35hz would require a 9db change in order to hear a difference. Of course if you've been in a car that's 140dB loud and another that's 149dB loud (let's say same frequency to simplify things), you know that that 9dB is a HUGE change, and not a barely audible change. That last part may have strayed a bit from the initial thought, god forbid I offer some food for thought, but my main point for your situation (bass frequencies): if you have amp a that makes 2500watts, and amp b that makes 3000watts, you won't be able to tell any difference. Now if your competing, then yeah you could gain some extra on the meter.

Either way, your still resorting to a rudimentary method for comparison. Pretty sure that's all he's asking for, is a basic comparison, like, what to expect? Is it worth doing? Why does it seem you are posting only to be negative and try to make yourself seem more intelligent, where you are actually doing just the opposite...still curious how you think comparing output of two amps on same load at assumingly same voltage is apples to oranges.... I'm not trying to be negative, I just wanted to point out a flaw that unfortunately effects the very thing the OP is looking at. I never said comparing amplifier outputs with the same load is apples to oranges, I said comparing amplifiers with different loads. I did however say "either way", which would imply that even if the loads were the same, you are still using a flawed method for comparison. Logically one could think that you could max out each amplifier with the same load, with the same equal clipping, and measure the output. Then it would be a fair comparison? Perhaps this could work, I don't know. ---------------------------------------------- Sorry OP for cluttering your thread with my pompous thoughts.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1gUdxOxsKg

Either way, your still resorting to a rudimentary method for comparison.

What makes you say that? Only asking for reasoning since I have had thoughts on picking up an M4a. I completely understand what you're asking, but unfortunately am not familiar enough with DD amps to give you an answer. I'm sure if you asked about Sundown or IA, or ZED, you would get more helpful posts... Not sure why ppl are saying apples and oranges and crap rather than actually posting something to help... Here's what I found on youtube, hope it helps! The reason I said comparing apples to oranges is he's comparing one amp's power output at 0.5ohm against another amp's power output at 1ohm, and then attempting to believe the amps are similar. A clamp meter doesn't measure any distortion or alteration to the signal shape, just power. Turning the gain up too high can result in a severely clipped signal, square wave, which will have a higher rms voltage then a sine wave. So in my opinion, it's absolutely useless to use a clamp meter to compare amplifiers.

oxymoron? Pretty much.

Came out great. Right now, no other car on the forum comes to mind that I would rather steal.

Thanks, and it still got loud at 30-35hz? How did the subs handle that? My Fi Q 15 subs move very little on their 33hz tuning but If I play then at 30hz they reach their xmax at half volume, I cant play below tuning without the subs going crazy. How do the Zcons act? I'm going to guess that the zcons have stiffer suspension then the Q, so they may take a bit more abuse below tuning.

Effortless SQ from sub woofers. I shall call it: "In the gap 24/7!" Some people might not catch that. The icons certainly sound stellar, but sometimes even the slightest amount of bass irritates me on some music. I feel sorta snobby at times. Perhaps I'll order that fedora and scarf. The bass or the sub-bass irritates you? Well I have my icon crossed pretty high to keep the ex-anarchies from over-excursion, so currently it's around 30 to ~120. I'm guessing it's the parts from ~50+ that I feel are "muddying." If I had the icon crossed much lower, say 50hz, then perhaps I would keep that impact, and wouldn't have that muddy sound. I'd have to play with the eq and tone everything from 50 to 100ish down for the ex-anarchies then. I'll add that to my to do list. I think you are in denial about your deeply rooted love of tooth rattling bass. I think you secretly want to knock out the loose teeth of small children with incredible bass and that's not a bad thing. Perhaps build an enclosure that you can adjust the gains for soft soothing melts with the rest of the audio SQ, that can also get seriously loud with just a twist of the gain knob. J That's pretty much how it is currently, only it's in the lower 40 range instead of being closer to 150. Last night I was listening to Sheryl Crow, and some drum solos, being perfectly content. After a while my friend put in Biggie Smalls, and I had to turn it up. Of course I wanted more!!! Really just comes down to what I'm listening to. I'll build a new box, big and ported, and go from there.

Played with the tune & eq in the car for less then five minutes, and my back was soaked, sweat dripping down my face, back of knees wet. Pretty picture huh? Cabin temp was too damn hot, and outside temp isn't even that bad today. WTF

I think Sean has this album.

I sure hope so.

Oh yeah. Looking forward to seeing what he whips up.

Effortless SQ from sub woofers. I shall call it: "In the gap 24/7!" Some people might not catch that. The icons certainly sound stellar, but sometimes even the slightest amount of bass irritates me on some music. I feel sorta snobby at times. Perhaps I'll order that fedora and scarf. The bass or the sub-bass irritates you? Well I have my icon crossed pretty high to keep the ex-anarchies from over-excursion, so currently it's around 30 to ~120. I'm guessing it's the parts from ~50+ that I feel are "muddying." If I had the icon crossed much lower, say 50hz, then perhaps I would keep that impact, and wouldn't have that muddy sound. I'd have to play with the eq and tone everything from 50 to 100ish down for the ex-anarchies then. I'll add that to my to do list.

Nice equipment to start off with. No more jet pack.

I am loving my 18's, they are sealed and sound awesome on all music. If I had room 4 18"s would have been done with more power. I am loving my 18's, they are sealed and sound awesome on all music. If I had room 4 18"s would have been done with more power. If I had the room and funds I'd probably do similar. Just further nonsensical thoughts.

Effortless SQ from sub woofers. I shall call it: "In the gap 24/7!" Some people might not catch that. The icons certainly sound stellar, but sometimes even the slightest amount of bass irritates me on some music. I feel sorta snobby at times. Perhaps I'll order that fedora and scarf.

What the shit, man? I already said the entire idea is completely nonsensical.

Unless you have the same vehicle as him, and willing to share enclosure specs, that isn't very helpful.

Damn 3 g's for the LEGO's? That is awesome! Damn, busy busy. Glad the auctions went well. I am hoping to make another grand or two off the rest. Yes 5k in LEGO's. Should pay for a nice trip to Hawaii for my 10 year anniversary , Kauai and the Big Island to be more precise. WINNING.

I should build a larger ported box, and bigger amp, way less work, should be good enough. Found someone in Europe with my car, but they won't tell me their basic enclosure specs.

Well I'm measuring the car, and seeing if I can fit another 18 in. Looks like it'll be a complete bitch to get the box in the car, perhaps if I made two identical boxes. The space over the fender wells would have to be used, and the width of the enclosure would be longer then the width of the rear hatch / 5th door opening. Stupid thing is, currently I hardly use the icon as I don't like the bass interfering with the front stage. In fact, I'd be perfectly content with a single 10", but I just have this hare brained idea to fit another 18, and be able to break a 150db if desired. Of course I could fit two 15s relatively easily, but I had that last time, plus I just want more cone area, and less power. Nonsensical thoughts. ugh.

Thanx Bro!! Agreed. Did you make the speaker mounting pieces out of abs plastic, or bought somewhere? Looks like a really good idea. I absolutely love the look of the 10" xcons, with such a huge motor. Makes me want to sell the 18" and get a 10", which makes no sense. Nope, they're made out of MDF and finished in bed liner. The build process on them is earlier in the log. I agree, they look meaner than sin. Can't wait to get the box built and see the look on peoples faces when they see it's sweet ass through the plexi. Then the confusion that follows when they don't see anything on the PR's that will look exactly the same from the outside, trying to figure out what the hells goin on in there, LOL. Oh I missed that, well they came out superb, why didn't I think of that when I did mine. Always fun to have something out of the ordinary to confuse people.

Well you've certainly come to the right place to learn. Don't be afraid to make threads about specific stuff. Also use the search function as it's "access" to many many years of accumulated information.