dirtysouthboss

the lower tune the more port area you need for the same output. just as you need more xmax give me some T/s parameters and i ll help you out.

Their P1500.1 is rated 1250 @ 12 volts... it doesn't DO that, at least not anywhere remotely near rated THD. Just a small correction. I will also disagree on clean -- triple rated THD for less than rated power isn't clean by my definition. Not that it sounds terrible, because it doesn't, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it clean either. Comparing the P1500.1 to the SAZ-1500D is a misnomer. They aren't in the same class at all and cannot be compared. Of course the P1500.1 costs less to the consumer, as it costs less than half as much to build! I have the price sheets from the factory Massive uses, so I know this for certain. For that matter... the P3000.1 costs less to build than the SAZ-1500D does. Does that tell you anything about the comparative quality? As for the comparison to the Atomic, I can't comment as I don't know anything about the amp. Is your price authorized with warranty? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> honestly its not fair to compare the atomic to the 1500 as it get them directly from george, but i will definitally keep you in mind. i also understand how expensive it is to do something of this caliber and i respect you for doing so. As for the massive amps i have had good resluts with them(3% THD is barely audible if at all in woofers. I do agree there not the cleanest but they are good amps. i realy like the comp stuff which is probably much more comparable to your product.

http://www.massiveaudio.com/broadband/prod...sAmplifiers.pdf Im suprised that the amps didn't do rated power. never had a single problem. the 1500 does 1250@ 12 and 1500 @ 14.4 the 1500 goes for 380 compared to 450. its a great amp IMO and for the price its a good deal. there output is clean. some amps do 1500 with 45 volts and 45amps. others do 65 volts and 31 volts. the high voltage amp will introduce less strain on the inductor. good to see someone else with amps out but i don't think i would spend 500+ on 1500 when i can get 2400 for the same price(atomic 2200.1). im interested to see what amprage.volts you get on the output teminals. 75 amps for 810 watts isn't bad at all. would expect to get about 1200-1300 clean watts @1ohm. its about 75% efficient which is good.

where are the test of the P1000.1 and p1500.1? i never had a problem with them and they where strong, and cleaner than alot of other monoblocks. to name a few the memphis 1000D and RF BD 1000 and lanzar opti 1000D(decent amp for the money). I have had nothing but good luck with massive. how much is your new 1500?

i agree 100%

Kent, how dare you make a NooB statement! I'll let you slide on that as I know what you're getting at. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> thanks..lol.. i've been doing all my posting at the wifey's work...and i can't stay online very long..so things are said quickly... wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee <{POST_SNAPBACK}> if you think output is soely dependant on displacment you have learning to do. SPL is really a measure of efficiency and loudness. if the woofers actualy efficiency is lower than anothers(not 1w1m like its done currently) with the same displacment the more efficient unit will be louder. with that being said the RL-P S are very efficent below 50 hz and drop off fast after that. while the mags are efficent wo about 40 and has the dampning for great efficiency well beyond its usable range. if you would use the proper power and boxes you will see with 1200 watts the mag is a better choice. also the 3 mags will have more efficenty and displacment than 2 RL-Ss.

???? the rl-s perform awesomely ported and with very little power. as in a 136.6 legal at 34hz with just 1200wrms off a factory gm head unit. and that's a 12 in 2.5ft^3 tuned to 28hz and 32in^2 of port. are they as efficient as a mag? no. but i ran the new proto 15 mag as well. and output was very, very close to the rl-s 12. across the board. but i'll say this, they were in pretty identical boxes (2.5 cubes, though the mag box was tuned to 34hz and 50in^2 of port) so i belive the mag was handicapped a bit. all in all, it's a budget decision IMO. i'd love to throw two 15 rl-s against 3 15 mags just for kicks. both are great subs backed by great people. would be an awesome h2h... wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee <{POST_SNAPBACK}> let me explain. how much a woofer moves with a given input and how much output with the input is different. dampning is a different matter at hand. you know how much dampning is suggested for ported aligments? both mechinal and electrical dampning as well as BL is important in a ported aligment. you could do what you like, i don't really care. I know for a fact that Mags are ideal both ported and sealed. while the RL-s isn't. im not doubting the RL-s or saying its bad or anything, jsut that the Mag is much more ideal ported and it will be louder with the given input. i made 2 punch HE2 10s do mid 140s @ 36hz on the TL with 1k, so whats your point? oh an it Was a daily install.

3.5 tuned to 32 seems to work well. the suggested box on the site works great also. how much port area you have? i build boxes! there not the cheapest, but there bullet proof if you want info you can email me @ [email protected], also be specific please.

anymore comments like that and you'll get the button wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee <{POST_SNAPBACK}> am i missing something here? looks to me like its a simple recommendation.

3 mags 12s ported or sealed? vs the 2 RL-S sealed or ported? the Rl-S proform decently ported. there peaky and very inefficent. they don't have the proper dampning for ported aligments and they def need alot more power than the mags. the mags on the other hand are much more ideal ported and need about 1K to get loud(each). They have the proper dampning both mechinal and electrical as well as have enough surface area to keep extremely cool even with 1200 RMS. the mags would have about 60in^2 of cone area and about 1000 watts MORE power handling before compression. they need smaller boxes and have just as much displacment.

i would use a single 3515 or 2 2512s with 80in of port area.

"dry xbl^2" as in being so clean as to not have the "warmth" that most typical drivers have from the distortion inherient in their design. personally, it wasn't so much that as that the rl-p jsut flat out dropped lower, was just as crisp and fast and almost as loud for less money. and the rl-p isn't as box picky. and tom, your right, the new XXX is SG technology, not xbl^2. if believe it's a version of sorts of LMS (they can't use LMT anymore) wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee <{POST_SNAPBACK}> no, the xxx doest use our coil... at least they better not, lol. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> no, not saying they are using your coil, but rather doing it with the motor. and i might be wrong, but after reading what split gap was, it seemed to me to be a similiar approach to what the LMS does, only not varying coil thickness, but rather splitting the motor to achieve the higher bl as the coil moves. am i even close? wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee <{POST_SNAPBACK}> its very very simple. instead of using one coil and limiting the topplate height for a high xmax, they use 2 coils and one topplate so the foward stroke uses the top coil and the rear stroke uses the bottom coil. NO matter what topologly you use you sacrfice efficiency for xmax. XBL,split coil, lmt all of them do so. i have something that is similar to split coil and XBL but its even better IMO.after testing and building the new coils ill expalin it, but untill then i won't say any more. as sone one will try to beat me to a patient.

1 RE MT and stiff spyders= less low frequency efficiency. none of the drivers you named are realy great lowend drivers. also many many many installs are TL its not a normal TL, but its the same purpose. the box is designed around the res frequency of the car using the wavelength on the specific frequency so tchinally it is a TL box just without ports the box IS the port. TL boxes designed correctly will "meter" louder than a ported boxes you justh have to get it phased in at the dash. 1 because its in perfect phase betwen the front and rear wave, and 2 @ that resonance the systems efficency its much greater than a normal ported box. not to mention that there are little to no restrictions on air flow. have you seen mike jones's install? he does exactly what i just said and has one of the loudest cars ever. if you wnat sick lowend i would go with a ported box(so pretty low QES under .42) and a decently low FS around 25-30hz. the mag D2s or 3515s will rock your world. i have desined very loud TL boxes. hell i done a 144 on the TL with 2 punch he2 10s and 1K @ 36hz in a tail blazer. people ca barely get that with 2 12s and 2k @ 45-50 much less 36 so i ain't trippin.

it doesn't sound as good but it sure gets loud as fudge. they have alto more xmag and xsus. they have 3in peak to peak. also the new 250 does too! they realyl step up the new 3500s people have put 2K daily to them and people are hitting 150s with 2 woofers and 1200 per. ther def worth looking into.

whats going on? could someone inform me? please tell me this isn't anotehr 4in VC proto and its a good 3in coil. what is the design stand point? looks like oyu aiming at a high Xmax. i like the surround cone and backet. i know nothing about the motor. hopefully low dampning so it excells ported with good PH and good throw.

also might i recommend a Transmission line box? i promise you 2 3515s or 2 mags in a TL and you won't need but about 1000 watts,lol its pretty easy, break in the driver in free air, the find the FS. when you know the FS you build the box. use the same port area as SD and make sure you have the right lenght of port and you will notice lowend efficiency like no other. i had 2 punch HE2s in a TL and people thought it was 2 18s. hehe for 2 3515s you could do 250in^2 or port area 130in long! i promise you when you hear them you will chit yourself. you will need about 21-22 cubes. port 8Wx30Hx130D you don't need a box the port is the box! thats why you use the same port area as SD. since you need 14W the last section should start @ 9in wide a slowly increase to 14W so you can fit the woofers in the box. it really doesn't affect tune as its alreadly so efficient you won't notice. also the last section should be directly behind the woofer starting on the same plain as the woofers.

the new 3500s are sick! they have around 20mm xmax(which is plenty for ported!) and they handle about 2K music all day long. they have a new suspension and a new motor. IMO there loud as the old D series 9500 with A lot better lowend. they need about 4 cubes but 4.5 for extended lowend doesn't hurt. with 4 tuned to 32 you get a F3 of about 29hz with a 4.5 tuned to 30hz you get a lightly bigger peak with a F3 of about 28hz. if thats not low end 5 tuned to 28 does very very good too, but its really not need as the output on these woofer is SICK. I heard a freinds 2 mag 15s in the recommend box and i LOVED them, he was having some h/u problems but even with abut 600 watts tehy where nicely loud and sound excellent! if you want a slightly better sounding woofer that get loud as piss MAG if you want something stupid stick loud that doesn't sound bad 3515.

how much power? what the res frequency? whats the box tuned to and where does it peak?

what size and tune box you use the 3500s in? the 3500 after break in get VERY low. i could easy get them down to 20hz and it would get sick loud. they didn't really sound bad etiher, excpet there slighly punch in the wrong aligmetns which isn't really a bad thing. there prtty silimar to the mags but they need a larger box. 4-4.5 works good IMO. you are talking about the D series right?

after using both RE and DD the question is easy. i have owned the XXX and SX and installed just about even sub they made. the 9515 is def not a lowend monster, but it does get sick loud. i know a few people doing well over 150 with 2 15s and 1200 PER. one guy by the name of typerbass does 150+@39hz legal with only a 2500D to both. you have to understand motor topogoly somewhat to make an informed decision. you want ported? you want it to be very peaky or just a littel boost around 30hz? you want it to sound good? how much power you have? how much space you have? building a wall actually HURTS low frequency efficiency so proper tuning is a must as well and the right woofer for the aligment. while i think you could find a better woofer than the 9515 for this case the 9515 is def no slouch. people put up mid 150s with daily tuned to 9515 with 4K per! and this is mostly stock installs. on the otehr hand i would strongly recommend the DD 3515s or stereo integrity mad D2 15s. 3 of those woofers will eat you alive. the mags sound a little more nautral but the DDs try to rip your head off. my vote 3 3515s in 13 tuned to 30 with Alot of port area 300 or so. or 3 mag D2 15 is 10.5 tuned to 28 with A lot of port area like at least 250in^2 the more you give them the louder the low stuff becomes both the the mag and 35 will take 2 K daily, but the mag has a suspension that allows it to be sensitive and decently efficient os make sure your subsonic is on @ 28 hz other wise you will bottom the mags out. its NOT a big deal with the mag but it is possible and its just a precaution. same with the 3515s. i had a XXX and SX they where avarge woofers with decent build quatitly. the XXX was pretty impressive but the coils couldn't handle the power, and i felt that the dampning wasn't high enought to go ported, my SX 18 slamed pretty hard ported, but i just wasn't very impressed with the build of it. after a while to spyders broke down and when it really startd to get off it got hot. 1200 clean was fine but 1500 it didn't want much more. as for as the new XXX. ill stick to my standard over hung topology as the suspension of design doesn't allow much efficenty and to get that amount of throw you need sick power.