cobra93

I'm running (1)- 88120 dvc off a jl 500/1 in a ported box right now (1.6 cf 32hertz tuned) and it sounds good ported to me. I've also got (3) 88120 dvc titanium's that I've in the same box driven by a jl 1000/1 and it sounded the same as the aluminum just louder. I have (2) 8808 dvc as well I was running them in a .75- 1 cf (don't remember for sure) 32 hertz tuned driven by a jl 500/1 Give it a shot both ways you might be surprised. I used a pencil and paper to find "optimum" volume and ran with it. >"Advanced Speaker Systems" by Ray Alden >Vb= 15Vas(Qts)^2.87...................Where Vas = F^3 I've always been a fan of smaller boxes, but damn the port length is long. I think they're great sounding subs. here's the T/S parameters if you don't have them already. Fs.> 26 hz. Qts.> .47 Vas.> 2.1 > typo in the manual, it says f^2, not cf^3. spl/w/m. >84.9db Qes.> .513. Qms.> 5.6. Sd.> .0357 m^2 sealed enclosure (recommended) as per the eclipse manual. 1.0 cf> Q .81> f3 40 hz.> Fc 45 hz.> ripple .27 db. .75 cf > Q. .91> F3 42 hz. > Fc 51 hz. >ripple .74 db. .5 cf > Q 1.0 > F3 46 hz. >Fc 60 hz. >ripple 1.7 db. I called eclipse and asked for a recommended ported box size( a long time ago ), they told me it wouldn't sound right and they don't recommend it. I tried it anyway (had to see for myself) and it sounded the same but with more output. I believe it has linear spiders not progressive spiders.

Define Irony as it applies to this thread: I have the peerless HDS's (which may be a step in the right direction as far as frequency response goes) and more people giving advice/helping, but no amp to test this theory. Until I get my 125.2 back from repair I'm at a standstill. Thanks goes out to Sandt38, j-roadtatts, Impious and 6appeal for all you help. I'll post back when I've had a chance to listen to the sls's and the hds's in a sealed box for comparison.

The 10s, 12s, and 15s don't have any need for it -- the glue surface area is significantly more and they don't come off. But the real question is does the windshield have enough glue surface so it won't "come off".

I'm in Toledo, Cincinnati is still a ways away from me. I'm a couple of miles from the Michigan line. Thanks for the thought. I was hoping I would get around those types of issues by limiting the frequencies I'm playing the sls's at. I'm pretty patient, I'm not giving up. I've got the cheap peerless hds's to try next, but I'm waiting to get the amp back from repair. I realize the hds's aren't going to wow me, but they may enlighten me as to what I'm searching for. I realize the title of my thread is no longer applicable, I'm not sure if I can edit it or not.

I'm glad to hear that you're happy with what you have and I hope you don't run into the same issue again. Your doors must be solid if those aura's aren't rattling the crap out of them.

Great pics. You sir, have done very well for yourself.

I'm a ford guy at heart sandt38, but the Grand national's/GNX's are awesome. BTW, Thanks for all your help so far, Joe.

Thanks J. I didn't read the link yet, but I did save a copy of the chart. Good looking out.

I'm not expecting a miracle. I had try see for myself, and for $10.00 a piece I thought, what the shit. I ordered the peerless hds last night. So we'll see if there worth the money.

Hey j, sounds like a good idea. You're using the PXA-H100, what's the crossover slope on that ( 12db per octive)? Are you using the crossovers on the alpines? If not, try using both, combine them for a 24 db per octive. I was just looking back in my thread and found where you stated I'd try a test box with the one that's still working. I've always preferred some type of enclosure for my speakers for that fact if nothing else. However if you smoked the coil, the box probably won't help. You stated you were showing them off to your buddy (a drummer), how much harder were you pushing them than normal? With the speaker open to the door cavity can you see anything in your mirrors? One last thought, with the setup in my cobra, I always turned the 8w3's down when I was cranking the rear sub (eclipse) because I couldn't tell if I was trying to kill them from one song to the next. Good luck , I hope your next reply is that you got it sorted out.

If those are outside dimensions and 3/4" material, it looks like a 38 hertz tune. What tuning were you looking for?

You threadjacker!!!! :ban2: :ban2: Just kidding j-roadtatts, I' m glad to get your input as well. The tangband's, fountek's and peerless drivers are my first attempt at stepping out of the ready made component/ coax speakers and I've got a lot to learn. Your experience/descriptions are of help to me. I have to agree on the sony subs, in fact when they went to the "xplod" line up it seemed to me as though they gave up, gave into the marketing bs of peak power ratings and such. I still have a sony xm 7547 es amp that does ok, but doesn't compare to the quality of the jl slash amps I switched to. Bass Box Pro 6 (harristech, HT-audio) > I bought that so long ago. It seems to do a good job, but I still will use a pencil and paper as a comparison. I don't know if I'd buy it again ( winisd ) seems to give similar results, but BBP6 is "prettier". BBP6 also has a crossover network program in it, but I've never used it. I don't believe you'll find it for free. I have also found that I prefer a steeper crossover slope than 12 db per octive.

That isn't really because they are "Long throw" in as much as the long throw typically requires a longer coil in the gap. Most manufacturers tend to use the overhung coil, which is a long coil one that extends beyond both ends of the gap, as it maintains a pretty linear BL, and it also increases powerhandling. But the downside is this longer coil raises the inductance of the driver and driver speed is pretty much dependent upon it's inductance. Here is a white paper on the subject... although it may be a bit over your head, you may gather some information on how a driver's function is affected by it's inductance. http://adireaudio.com/Files/WooferSpeed.pdf The W0s are not actually "crisper" drivers, they are actually more distorted drivers... That is they have less linear BL (motor force) and less linear CMS (suspension compliance), creating distortions that are actually pleasing to many listeners. I know a lot of people like to rag on the W7, but it is actually a pretty impressive driver, with regards to innovative design and linearity. Like I said in the other thread, most people actually like distortions in the subbass and midbass regions. I never gave inductance a thought, I always envisioned the surround rippling something terrible. If I ever saw a slow motion video of a surround, like the w7, since I mentioned it, the image would probably give me chills when I leaned on it. I reread my last post and allow me to correct myself, they have that "flubber" sound when pushed a little too hard. I do agree the w7's are impressive sub's. I'll give the sls's another shot, I just need to commit to change. I now have an o.k. system to go back to when I'm done testing for the day. I hate the thought of not liking the sound, then being in limbo until i can find something else to try. Have you ever been stumped on a problem that you've been beating your head against the wall over, only to have someone walk up (with fresh eye's/perspective) and suggest something so obvious that you can't believe you didn't see it before? The reason I ask is, maybe I need to change the fr88's to something that will play lower with more authority and blend better with the sls's (because they seem to do there job very well, I'm just using the wrong tool). Before you and j-roadtatts responded to this thread I was flipping through madisounds catalog and was looking at these as an alternative. peerless exclusive I also considered these due to the price ( and the shorter x-max ) to see if it's all in my head or will they perform closer to the mids in my jl xr-650's (in snap, punch or quickness ) that I keep referring to. For the price ($10.00) each. I wouldn't be out much. Who knows, maybe they'll give me a better perspective of what I want. I realize this is only a $10.00 speaker and I don't expect the to be the answer I'm looking for, but maybe they'll enlighten me. peerless sds Or these. peerless hds I hope you've subscribed, it could be a while before I post any opinions again, I'd like to bounce any results off you again. Thanks again.

This is the exact reason for placing an enclosure in the door, vibration. The mirrors don't shake in my cobra due to the sealed enclosure. I currently have the fr88's running off a coustic 240 se amplifier, its crossover only goes up to 200 hertz (12db per octive I believe). The sundown 125.2 also has a 12db per octive. I'd prefer an option of 24 db per octive. I didn't realize (until I used a dmm to set the crossover on the 125.2) that on a 12 db per octive slope you are really covering a large frequency range to hit your crossover point (reading output voltage). Your referring to the sls's as sterile, that's probably the word I've been looking for all along. I have to say it, jl audio makes some nice equipment (if you haven't already guessed, I do like). The one thing I really like is there crossovers ( adjustable slope and the ability to nail a frequency by counting the clicks on the dial). With everything else I feel like I'm guessing. If I'm looking at a 200 hertz low pass, maybe I'll pickup another 500/1 (2 - 500/1's in a dual mono setup). That would give me plenty of power and I'd know what I'm getting before I buy it. I'm just spitballing now. I'll try to run the sls's off the 500/1 (with a steeper slope, 24db per octive) sometime soon to see if that makes any difference. Thanks for your time and thoughts. One thought that keeps returning (in my limited use of different equipment) is that I can't recall a "long throw mid" ever sounding "quick" to my ears. Even sub's, like the w7's always sound like "flubber" even before the start to distort. I've used wo's that sounded more crisp than the w7's, but they don't have the output (obviously).

I am also a novice, I'm learning. Thanks for your subjective description. I'm surprised they played that high and sounded good. Yes i turned the fr88's off, that's when I thought I was trying to play the sls's too high. When I crossed them low enough to remove the vocals they were no longer complimenting the fr 88's. When I put them in the door versus the box the box sounded louder and cleaner despite the fact that they were farther from the boundaries of the car( the enclosure is 9 1/2" deep x 8"wide x 16" tall). As I said they are subs and in that aspect they do a wonderful job at being sub's. There "comfort" zone seems to be below what I'd like them to excel at. The best way I can describe them is like the difference between a 8" kicker comp vr and a jl 8w3 v2 I had mounted in the door enclosures (93 cobra) I posted above. The comp vr's did a great job of producing bass, but the jl's were more musical while producing bass.

Mine won't be setup for another month or so also. reposted image: Hell ya!! I'll be looking for your build log.

I'm jealous, I'm still staring at my 4 sa-8's in my computer room. Looks good so far. I'm subscribed.

sandt38 > On to the ranger, you asked for it, you got it. 2000 ranger extended cab I have gone the cheap route in sound deadening. I used 2 layers of asphalt based deadening on the floor, roof,rear wall and doors ( inner and outer). I followed that with sound barrier over top (2 layers in some places). hu > eclipse 8533, I purchased this new and never installed it. dvd-audio never caught on, my loss. eclipse 8533 front stage (subject to change) >fountek fr88ex full range (250 hertz and up) could change depending on mid bass/midrange I wind up using driven by jl audio 300/2 mounted on the dash/a pillars, aimed at the dome light (15 degree's off axis for both seats). I will be making some type of captured ball mount so I can aim them as I please. Think home theater satellite ceiling/wall mounts. > Mid bass/midrange undecided, tried peerless 830946 6 1/2" sls's driven by a sundown sax 125.2 ( 70 - 200/250 hertz). I purchased the amp mostly due to the crossovers (band pass options). I have mounted the sls's to a 5/8" baffle covering the 5"x 7" openings in the doors (running 1 in each door in stereo). The output ( above 80 hertz) didn't seem to be there, however below 80 hertz was better. At this point the doors/mirrors were vibrating quite a bit. So now I'm thinking there's some cancellation going on. I decided to build an enclosure for them and put them in the passenger side footwell. I have about .3 cf to play with in the front of the doors. There is nothing behind the inner panel, no window or regulator and I have up to 5 1/2" of depth to play with. I ran some different enclosures through BBP6 and found that a .3 cf vented alignment had a good response curve. Before you say it I know the measured response will change in the truck, but I had to start somewhere. I ran 2 sls's in parallel (2 ohms mono, right side only) to give me a better idea of the out put I could expect with 4 total ( 2 in each door). I now had more/cleaner output, but they still don't sound "punchy" or loud enough from 80 hertz on up. They seem to be "muted" or "lazy" in the frequencies I was trying to enhance (80 - 250 hertz). The low pass crossover allows me to go as high as 500 hertz, they sounded muddy as soon as there were any vocals being played. I tested them with Steely Dan, Heather Headley, Bob James and David Sanborn, Michael McDonald, Avril Lavigne, Autograph,Tupac, Shaggy and Dire straits. This music isn't very busy and they sounded pretty good, but when I played tracks from Evenessense, Killswitch Engage, Lincoln Park, Mudvane and even some Meatallica There's a lot more going on at at the same time and I had to lower the low pass crossover point a lot. Like I said I listen to everything and I could keep going, but you get the picture. I tried reversing the phase and different crossover points, but nothing seemed to help. I lost the 125.2 in the process of listening the second time around, I'm sending it in for repairs Monday. sub stage > I purchased 4 sundown sa-8's that I'm putting in a 3.2 cf vented enclosure tuned to 32 hertz ( low passed ~ 70 hertz ) driven by a sundown saz 2000d. I have not heard these yet, I have 2 eclipse 88120 dvc titanium cones to fall back on if I don't like the sa-8's as I know what to expect from them. sandt38 > Wow my head/ fingers hurt. Sorry for the long post, but I hope this gives you insight in to what i like sound wise and is enough information to make recommendations. I'm not dead set on the fr88's or the sls's, I'm willing to try something else. Here are some pics of the fr88's on the dash, don't mind the velcro, it's temporary. My intention ( if I wind up going the mid bass route ) is to put one behind the factory grill and one behind the door pocket mounted in an enclosure ( sealed/ported ).

This is some background for you on what sounded pretty damn good to me. 1993 Ford Cobra production # 1540 hu> clarion hx d-10 (I ran the front rca's into a kicker kq5 to be able to adjust frequencies and volume to my front stage) My link front stage > jl audio 300/2 (80 hertz on up) to jl xr-650 separates (using passive crossover) in a small sealed kick pod > jl audio 500/1 (75 - 40 hertz) driving jl audio 8w3 v2 subs in an aluminum/fiberglass sealed .25 cf enclosure rear fill >none sub > jl audio 1000/1 (75 - 28 hertz) driving (1) eclipse 88120 dvc titanium cone, 1.6 cf vented enclosure, tuned to 32 hertz. I realize I was overlapping frequencies, but when I was hammering the eclipse I'd turn down the 8w3's so I didn't hurt them (with the kq5). When I wanted a killer front stage/image I'd turn the eclipse down to blend with the 8w3's and let the 8w3's get some. I was at a locale car stereo spl event and the salesman I dealt with sent the jl audio rep. over to hear my car. He was in disbelief that I thought I needed to work on getting the imaging a little higher. Here are 2 pics of that front stage, which had the snap/punch/kick that I'd like to achieve in my ranger I listen to everything but country, it just doesn't do it for me.

I'll work on getting some pics for you right now, as well as a post as you describe. It's going to be a long post, sorry for that. Thanks again.

Take your time, this is a work in progress. Your quote from impious is the same thing I've read on diyma from Patrick Bateman. He has some very good threads, one of them includes ITD, and the cone of confusion. From what I've read about mid bass, I agree with you and impious, which is why I chose a full range driver and a mid bass. The xr-570's in my doors now keep dragging the imaging down to my feet. It may not turn out as I expect, which it hasn't on my first attempt, but I'll keep trying. I ran the sls's through Bass Box 6 Pro to get and idea of what I might expect from 2 (sls's) in each door after being disappointed by 1 mounted in each door on a 5/8" baffle. I've used BB6P om many occasions for my sub's and have had very good results, I've also went pencil and paper with very good results. I looked at the space I had available to me (.3cf in the door, the portion in front of the window in my first post) and thought if I port them they should sound cleaner at tuning and have more output, it was my hailmary to see if I could satisfy my needs. The EBP of the sls's (106) suggest a vented alignment also. I see you're eyeballing the exodus anarchy's in sandt38's thread, so was I. Sorry, I didn't have time to organize my thoughts/responses, I'm kind of in a hurry/busy myself. I'll be back on later tonight.When you have the time could you describe what your auras sounded like to you, I know subjective, but I curious to see how you phrase it. How well did they blend with your full range ff85k's? Thanks again.

sandt38, Thank you for that information. I have gotten more info. from you in one post (in your thread) than I have in my own thread asking for help/suggestions. i will do some reading on the speakers you've listed.

I have seen exodus' website and video's. This driver looks to be very impressive. Do you have any experience with peerless sls's ( 6 1/2" or 8" ) that would allow you to compare the two? I'm currently trying to redo my system and these could be what I'm looking for.

j-roadtatts, I'm glad you're tuned in, but I seem to be talking to myself. onebadmonte, did confirm what I was thinking/hoping. I have posted this same question on a different forum and received an answer that I didn't expect. While I can understand what A$$hole is saying , I believe I have the higher octive frequencies, just not the authority to make it believable. Nobody seems to want to give any advice. I don't know what your aura'a sounded like but I bet they were impressive. Does anything I'm saying make sense to you? Maybe I can learn from you. BTW, I'm subscribed to your "looking for a mid bass" thread. As for the fr88's, they do sound good to me. I have also played them back to back with the tangband w3 bamboo drivers and found the tb's sound better across the board until pushed. I have to dial out the 1000- 2500 hertz range for my ears with the fr88's. When pushed the top end does get a little ragged, but they still overpower 2 - 6 1/2" sls's. I don't know if that helps you at all, but they are cheap.

I restated my goals in the post above yours. I want some snap and authority to them. I'll be using a 125.2 for the moment. I'm having a problem finding an amp with the proper band pass crossovers, but the sundown fit the bill, I just wish it had more power. I'm planning on crossing them around 250-75 or 80 hertz. Possibly ,due to my ignorance, my 125.2 is stuck in protection right now. So I'll see what comes of that soon. I sent an e-mail to Jacob today and he's responded already, but he needed some clarification on what the amp is doing exactly. I trust he'll be fair with me. If I've learned one thing about him on these forums, it's he's a great guy to deal with when you (I) have a problem.