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How the hell are you gonna do that? if you don't have clamp meters? .. So this test is already worhtless before you begin it.. If the DD wins this one i'll take off my hat for this one. My friend will have his clamp meters We are just doing a basic test man. It's not going to be in all professional That's exactly it. If the all mighty DD wins when it has the power disadvantage we will know who is king. No..it is not a definitive answer, there is no definitive answer. It is not black and white like that..the only thing that can be said is speaker X was louder then speaker Y in this very specific install. It does not remain constant at all what so ever . Some speakers work better in some applications..for reasons that simply is a waste of time to find out.

Honestly, no it doesn't. That's not an insult to you in particular, anyone who successfully competes or operates a business designing enclosures. We've had this (or a similar) discussion before on this forum, ask Cableguy In the SQ arena I've seen many well respected world champions who've been praised for their installation and tuning abilities for many years speak misinformation and hold on to beliefs which were very much against the facts. Were they "right" because they could point to 10 systems that they've installed and tuned that won competitions, or because they have a shelf of trophies themselves? No, they weren't. Their information was just as wrong, regardless of their "credentials". The point is, credentials aren't part of the discussion. They have no place in it. They aren't relevant. Information is accurate or inaccurate, "right" or "wrong", regardless of the credentials of the person providing the information. Having credentials they can point to doesn't make their information any more right, and not providing credentials doesn't make their information any less right. Does it matter if M5 is a 30 year old keyboard commando sitting in his mom's basement if the information he's providing is accurate? No, it doesn't matter at all. The information can stand on it's own, regardless of the credentials of the poster. That goes for people on both sides of the discussion; M5, Robin, yourself, etc. If the information they're providing is accurate, then it's accurate regardless of the credentials of the person providing the information. If it's inaccurate, then it's just as inaccurate regardless of the credentials of the poster. This is the Argument from Authority I mentioned earlier. Information isn't inherently "correct" just because it's coming from someone assumed to be an authority. Conversely, information isn't incorrect just because it comes from someone not assumed to be an authority. It's a logically flawed argument. If the information is accurate or inaccurate, then it can be demonstrated to be such regardless of who's providing the information. Credentials have nothing to do with the validity of information.

Itll work fine Max on remote will be where your gain is set. Or remote turned down is gain lower then what the dial is set on amp

it was kind of a basic reply to everyone. lol. and no. if you read the whole post, HE can not prove it. unless of course he has the same exact car, in the same exact scenario, with the same exact build... the math behind m5s argument is factual, but irrelevant to a real life, in car build. as for it sounding good, you're right. that is subjective. as such, m5 shouldnt say it sounds bad (especially when never actually hearing it) and maliboom shouldnt say it sounds good. it sounds good "to him". others have said it sounds good "to them". but as a generalization, thats something that has to be decided each and every time by each specific person. No sir, that's my point. If it's accurate it can be proven with a meter. This is where M5 is coming from. If the OP stated that he wanted sound quality, then it should fit a specific set of goals. Those goals could be no more then 3 db. variance throughout the enclosures range, in the vehicle. Nobody cares what it sounds like outside of the intended vehicle. This can most certainly be measured. This also doesn't mean that it will sound good or meet the OP goals. I'd assume most people would not like a system that falls within this criteria. Even M5 has stated that a flat frequency response, "sound like shit". I'm at least 95% sure he has stated this in the past. Goals that were stated don't add up to M5's interpretation of the pics/design he saw and he was compelled to say something to get "your" attention. He did exactly that. Whether or not the questions that were asked by the OP or the builder had enough info. for M5 to give an intelligent reply, I don't know. I'd have to go back and read the original thread again.

he posted what he had to say in a build log where someone was just posting pics if their build that a professional/ someone with alot more experience was doing. the op had another thread where he asked opinions on another box i believe, but not about his current wall. and the op didnt ask any questions during his build log that required M5 to be as he was, or anyone else for that matter. and the log wasnt even full of misinformation given he wasnt posting it to teach anyone, nor was it there to ask questions about a build that was already in progress. now if M5 wouldve posted some of his less insulting statements in the thread he posted then it would be different. and thats because the OP was asking for suggestions and advice. I posted my experience with M5, not anyone else's. The misinformation was a general thing I've seen from M5 and was not directed at you. It seems as though you're looking for an argument, to me anyway. Trying to make sense of your reply is making my brain hurt. Do you read what you've typed after you've typed it? I'm not trying to be an ass, but that is hard to read. Well, his statement about the math being wrong got your attention. Didn't it? If I didn't know how to do the calculations and was relying on someone else, I'd most definitely start to ask some questions if it's my money on the line. Wouldn't you? I understand M5 can be hard to take, but the bottom line is that if you ask for help he'll give you help in his own fashion. When he sees that you're making an effort, he's more forthcoming. If you can't see that, ignore him. He's helped allot of members and you'll not change the minds of the ones that he's helped.

Honda delivered. Obviously something had to happen and here is some nasty static noise from the 4 channel amp. Bad grounding point is the suspect, however the owner will be back for tuning and to fix that issue since we were done close to midnight and couldn't play it loud.

I was merely making an observation, which seems to be a reoccurring theme where M5 continues to be an abrasive, opinionated person who makes no effort to act the way a moderator should. 46k posts and I'd bet half of them are belittling and insulting people while seemingly trying to provide "help". No matter how smart he seems, the dude is a pretty big douche most of the time. He thinks he's above everybody...it's pretty easy to see by his actions. I've seen quite a lot of posts and he has much more informative posts then these kind of posts in this thread where he has to defend himself because people don't understand him. M5 sometimes writes things that are difficult to comprehend. Colered is the important stuff, seems like some people don't read it, so i used colors to make sure they read it. so.. you posted to tell us that if someone is a moderator on a website, they obviously have credentials, but having credentials on the internet is pointless because people lie all the time.. soo..... once you figure out what you really want to say, feel free to try again. You don't get it don't you? Having credentials on the internet is useless, but if one of the owners of the site know him and seen what he has done or what kind of work he does, that makes him have good credentials. Seems like you try to make people feel less...That's why someone said that arseho comments are made. Same thing, trying to point out the little things and not admit the whole reply on itself is correct. colors..most important, because people read over it. Well excuse me that on a build log that was posted M5 blasted the designer/builder. "Someones math is confused, VERY confused. Its not gonna sound good." That was his very first comment. That's constructive criticism? Without rhyme or reason just blast the design because he "could have done it better" but he offers no advice. Just criticism. As for credentials... what does it take to be a "Tech crew" member??? Hours of sitting at a computer with programs and graphs? Or actually "BUILDING" enclosures for 10 years. I cant look up M5 anywhere to see what hes done except thousands of post on the internet. As for the builder/dsigner?? Google, Db Unit, then You Tube Iamamp3pimp and when done check out BASSHEADS.ENT Lets not talk about the hundreds of customers that are loud and sound good thanks to him. Why else would people defend the builder/designer if he didnt know his shit lol hmmmmmmmm Talking shit is what this quote is all about.. Reread what M5 wrote. He wrote that the math isn't correct,you should redo it. He didn't say: "THat sounds llike total shit , it will never work, break it out yo, you need some ho's to make it louder... That's why he said "similar" instead of just similar.( do you see the difference? ) Not everyone competes or builds things for themselves. They build for other people, design for companies behind the curtains. I think i wasted to much time for the thread, but i wouldn't want M5 to leave because some people don't know how to read his comments. He has a serious amount of knowledge , certainly in the top 10 of this site. But he doesn't like to give the total answer, he wants people to search for themselves. Kind of weird that M's reputation is 365, this means he has done quite a lot of good responses.

without argument, you make no progress. you have to be intelligent and giving in your arguments. hold true to the things you know as fact, and give on the things that you're unsure about. now then, m5, why the hell would it take weeks for you to post that link? while it doesnt change everything you've said, it certainly makes a little difference. you at least started off pleasantly enough. however, in my experience, some of what you said is incorrect.. 4th orders are "normally" bigger than ported boxed. obviously there will be scenarios where that does not hold true, but there will be many scenarios where it does. i can see that you had some form of constructive criticism way back when. so what happened to it? how can you go from that to deciding that a box wont work when you dont know all the other variables? and how in the HELL can you call out the designers and tell maliboom he needs to find new ones? absolutely nothing you post can change those situations, and THATS why you're on trial. as for the whole credentials talk, its not that hard. http://www.termpro.com/asp/competitorstats.asp?Competitor_ID=79589&Season=2011&Method=202 thats obviously not all of my history, but down at the bottom.. you'll see world finals, and the #2. and the funny part is, that doesnt make me an expert at all. but it at least means i have an idea of what im talking about and im not some 30 year old man sitting in my mothers basement being keyboard commando. btw, m5, im not calling you a 30 yr old man sitting in your mothers basement.. lol.

if you were saw a little kid getting picked up in an alleyway, and a bunch of big guys told you to leave, would you be a bigger man if you left the kid alone, and stayed and tried to help? point is, the whole "bigger man cause he walked away" thing is kinda gay in my opinion... if you know you're right about something, you dont just give up on it.

I was merely making an observation, which seems to be a reoccurring theme where M5 continues to be an abrasive, opinionated person who makes no effort to act the way a moderator should. 46k posts and I'd bet half of them are belittling and insulting people while seemingly trying to provide "help". No matter how smart he seems, the dude is a pretty big douche most of the time. He thinks he's above everybody...it's pretty easy to see by his actions.

Why is everyone thinking i didnt apply it right?? I did, it just doesnt work!! Because people want to believe that the way they installed theirs is going to prevent the same outcome. Some advocate heat - which only accelerates the deterioration of the rubber compounds added to the asphalt to increase its heat tolerance. Others, aggressive solvents or using rollers, neither of which make any difference. "Crap shoot" is a pretty good description. Asphalt will either melt or the VOC's will outgas leaving inert crud behind. As has been pointed out already, asphalt isn't a vibration damper. If it stopped rattles it did so by mobilizing the moving parts - duct tape would work as well. If it increased SPL, it did so by sealing air leaks. Asphalt is an inherently unstable material and a poor choice for this application. Installation has very little to do with anything. There have been several asphalt fans who have used incredibly meticulous and elaborate procedures and still ended up with failures. The key is analyzing the problem you are trying to solve and devising a solution that addresses it directly. If the problem is the trunk lid inner skin rattling against the outer skin, a few dabs of RTV silicone will solve the problem. If it's a rattling license plate, 25 cents worth of closed cell foam glued to the back of the plate will be more effective than 10 layers of vibration damper inside the trunk or trunk lid. Whatever the problem, asphalt isn't the solution - unless the problem is roofing related

First layers of paint Seems like the first layer which was on the amp rack looked better after some wetsanding with 600 and a second layer of paint, so I'll end up doing 3-4 layers. Right side enclosure is gloss to see if it looks any better than flat black. Once everything is in the trunk, if you get close to look for defects you block the light so the defects are way less visible compared to having the enclosures and rack outside.

if you actually read the thread, you would have seen that he's planning on posting the vid as soon as he gets access to a termlab. as for stirring the pot, m5 jumped out and ditched. us bashing him isnt stirring the pot. its chasing the poor bastard with a stick and further pointing out his worthlessness.

I pity people who are constantly think negatively, you live longer when you are happy.

Yo dawg I hurr you wuz lookin fo' some bang in yo' trunk. I'm only 19... by READING everything i could i LEARNED all of the things i KNOW about car audio. I've only been in the game for about a year or so. And no, Mommy and daddy didn't buy everything. ask ACTUAL questions with more details and we'll be able to teach you. None of this "If i have a Xplod on a Xplod 393939393 watt amp" bullshit, this is all install dependent. /thread

yo jedi im only 17 and trying to get some info nigga im new to car audio

FUCK YEAHHHHH I TOLD YOU GUYS!!! LOL AGREEDDDDD i agree to what you just said, the ufo has a TON and i mena a TON of force, which is why id takethe n3 over the n2

why would you waste such a beautiful enclosure on such a GAY SUB! did I mention that I HATEEEEEEEE KICKER!

HAHAHA YOUR pucking KIDDING ME RIGHT!!!!!?????? ohwell props to yu guys, yourthe only forum really doing it out there. especially making money off peoples asses let me know where you can find woofers who easily handle 2.5k+ get low and are and are AMERICAN MADE not "American assembled" for the same or similar price shipped. If you can PLEASE let me know I would LOVE to see prices like that. BTL is 40$ cheaper =] HAHAHA YOUR pucking KIDDING ME RIGHT!!!!!?????? ohwell props to yu guys, yourthe only forum really doing it out there. especially making money off peoples asses Wow... lol not gonna happen HAHAHA YOUR pucking KIDDING ME RIGHT!!!!!?????? ohwell props to yu guys, yourthe only forum really doing it out there. especially making money off peoples asses That was uncalled for, you get only a warning this time. Keep it up and you get an early vacation. thanks man =] Nice nice to talk with your mouth full. full of? its funny that you guys cant even see im sticking up for you as a consumer lol. why would you argue with a guy that would save you money? Nice nice to talk with your mouth full. Of DD Scrotum... Sorry I had to... its all good, my dds play loud

Actually, that was not my first comment. The discussion started here: On top of that, no where does that imply that it is the designer/builder I was stating was wrong, but the box itself. This surely could be from the owner misleading/pushing the designer in the wrong direction. The comment was pointed indeed, but being a continuation of a previous discussion it was logical. In particular when in the previous thread he himself even stated that the 4th order BP wasn't going to meet his goals. Obviously this would have stayed more productive had he chosen to continue the conversation there before jumping into a build, but that isn't the way it went. One other clarification. My comment was before anyone posted any graph. The graph was posted to help clarify, not the other way around.

Some of yall are still crying the same song. Its funny how grown man get sand in their vaginas over what has been said on the internet, criticism or not who cares. This is the funniest stuff I see on forums right here, the bickering over some words (can we say cheer leaders table at the lunch room in a high school). The builders arent responding, nobody is putting the car on the term lab. Even if the car is on the term lab the results can be tweaked or the system can be tuned to make it have a flat response so that wont help anything. Just let it die already. Florida keep building 4th orders and being loud and doing things out of the norm, its that simple. Really who cares? If you do what will it prove honestly.

he was also asked HOW it was incorrect. and he did say it would sound like shit

Welcome to M5.com, tis why I left several years ago. Book smart with no real world experience but his "word" is gospel around here. I used to waste my time offering advice and dared to go against what he said, so he started PM'ing me because I dared to speak out against the great Oz....

You should re-read this. Using it again will just be another waste of money as there are better techniques to yield the results you seek. I don't need to read it again. I understood perfectly what he was saying, however, I know what works in my van, has worked in my van, and will always work in my van. I don't really care about the opinions of others. I just gave my thoughts about it. It may not be suitable for you or somebody else, but it is suitable for me and does the job quite well. Competitors used to use it quite a bit BEFORE dynacrap came around. If I don't use it for the roof, I'll use a product under the soundstream name since it's better than most of the junk out there. There are other ways to deaden, people are just scared to try something different.