Bad news for the IA80.1

[neo_styles 43]

After reading this entire thread, I have an analogy for everyone. Consider this the in-between perspective:

A man goes to Vegas and watches a Criss Angel show. Everything he sees that night has him believing Criss is a sorcerer/wizard/what have you, so he goes back to his Podunk town and starts describing what he saw to his friends at a bar. His friends, only having what this guy has to go off, now believe just as much about magic.

But there's another patron at the bar: one of Criss' stage techs who fully understands how the illusions are performed. He tries to reason with these guys (who are probably, by now, quite intoxicated) about the logic behind how these illusions are performed.

Madness/hilarity/mass argument ensues. Just as much as the stage tech is getting frustrated with the Podunk townspeople, the townspeople question the outsider about whether or not what actually happened is magic.

That is this thread right now. It would behoove both of you to take a step back, forget about your titles/credentials/etc and have a meaningful discussion about the validity, lack thereof, or however you feel about the situation. I respect both sides' views of the subject and (for once) am removing my own, but for fuck's sake, let's be adults about this.

[tantric sounds 8]

that's why its been stated several times that he doesn't claim the tests to be perfect but to be used as a general idea. I hope after this thread is done that people learn how to truly comprehend what they read before they attack people and make themselves look worse than they should. This is supposed to be an informative thread not a bash on something without giving anything positive to further the education of the people that don't understand thoroughly the subject at hand

[kirill007 52]

It's always interesting reading these type of threads, you get to know a few members the way they actually are and how much they actually know.

 

I am happy M5, Impious, Shizzon and other people who actually know what they are talking about stay on here instead of giving up.

[neo_styles 43]

that's why its been stated several times that he doesn't claim the tests to be perfect but to be used as a general idea. I hope after this thread is done that people learn how to truly comprehend what they read before they attack people and make themselves look worse than they should. This is supposed to be an informative thread not a bash on something without giving anything positive to further the education of the people that don't understand thoroughly the subject at hand

Claimed or not, do understand that there's a large concentration of easily-impressionable people on CACO and other forums that will take the clamp as gold because it came from a consumer using stuff they can't just walk down to Harbor Freight and buy with their weekly allowance. Just as much as we all get annoyed to hell about companies marketing by Max Power/Burst ratings, the techies are getting frustrated with clamp tests to determine the value of an amplifier being used as gospel by the novice crowd and are doing their damnedest to squash the impression that it CAN be used as anything considering an accurate test.

If I were to go on CACO and make a thread explaining HALF of what's being discussed here, would I not just get flamed out of existence? So how is that any different from a forum of people who go by empirical evidence forming up against a thread saying that there's bad news for IA because a clamp was done on one of their amps that made things look bad?

[tantric sounds 8]

Like ive stated plenty of times, I don't agree that the clamp are accurate samples of output power of an amplifier but im not going to attack the person unless I have viable information to back it up like the correct equipment to use to test correctly.

Truth is is that their isn't a perfect way to test these amplifiers as is theres no perfect way to test speakers or spl as there are to many variables to be perfect. I ( like someone else stated ) remember plenty of discussions in my engineering courses that ended up like this thread has. Its not my place to give an equipment list of what was used to do the tests cause I don't personally do the testing. Everyone seems to like the new amp dyno but I can see where it can be off as well in testing. Im not taking anything away from anyone or any equipment as long as everyone can understand that there are variables in everything with testing so take testing as something with variables. I will concede that M5 has viable points as long as the understanding is there that there are more viable points out there. We don't all have to agree all the time and I will apologize for anything that I write that comes across the incorrect way. Everyone here on this forum deserves to have educated threads and this one has gone way off course. In the future can we all try and work together for the better instead of bickering, that's all im asking.

[tantric sounds 8]

It's always interesting reading these type of threads, you get to know a few members the way they actually are and how much they actually know.

 

I am happy M5, Impious, Shizzon and other people who actually know what they are talking about stay on here instead of giving up.

I don't think there is anything wrong with defending your opinion by any of these guys but tactfulness is lacking sometimes by all of us. We all need to stay on track instead of bickering about a set right or wrong. Looks bad for the whole forum.

[KyleBrown 121]

You are getting very close!  

 

Now the only part is to understand that you cannot negatively comment on the amp's proposed poor performance from the test because it's currently impossible to tell that from the test.  Especially since it was retested at 14.6v, with uncertainty, and jumped to over 10,000w.

 

Point is.. like u said, to give a general idea.

 

And the funny thing is, many people think, tought or believe the uncertainty tested result from test 1 is so far off from rated power that it's impossible to prove it's proper rating.

 

Nope.. 

I hope everyone has learned not to trust these tests as facts especially from the drama of this particular product.

 

 

Yea, 10k with a clipped to shit wave. So that's hardly overwriting the previous results. 

[///M5 2,833]

Like ive stated plenty of times, I don't agree that the clamp are accurate samples of output power of an amplifier but im not going to attack the person unless I have viable information to back it up like the correct equipment to use to test correctly.

I believe tfade is using the best that he can get his hands on and being as fair as he can. We all know its not perfect or 100% accurate but it gives an idea and that is his intent.

Which was a clamp. Absolutely useless test. If that is the best that he could do, doing nothing would be better. Proved nothing other than the fact that the tester doesn't understand testing.

As for discussing bashing, There is some bashing going on and it is well deserved. It is not bashing a person, but a test. When a test that is full of flaws is posted and some "podunks" started to defend it without understanding anything it is bad for any forum. The only thing any of us who are knocking it down care about is the fact the test was horseshit, the results worthless and using it to draw conclusions is idiotic. I don't know nor care who Taylor is, he obviously doesn't know any better was confused by the internet and performed a test based on information that was well above his head. Unlike those defending his test at least he understood that well and decided not to post as he realized the uselesness of what he had done.

If you all would stop taking things personally and instead read objectively this would have gone over easier. It isn't like all of us at some point haven't wasted time doing something we thought would do something else. Next time perhaps though instead of blindly defending ask for details on why and try to understand what was done.

[///M5 2,833]

Yea, 10k with a clipped to shit wave. So that's hardly overwriting the previous results.

Stop looking at the results. They are pointless.

[tantric sounds 8]

I wasn't defending anyone or anything if you read my posts. I was just making a point of instead of bashing anyone or any test it would be more tactfullnes to say that the results aren't interesting to you for the equipment used should have been x,y and zip parts and conducted this way to be more accurate. As far as taking this thread personally theres no way, but the direct attack on me about my product was uncalled for and unprofessional.

Edited January 6, 2014 by tantric sounds

[Impious 1,476]

that's why its been stated several times that he doesn't claim the tests to be perfect but to be used as a general idea.

And they aren't really useful for that either. That is the point people are missing. Much less for the conclusions most of the readers seem to be drawing from it. And that is the most damaging part of these tests. People see "numbers", assume because they see numbers those numbers must mean something so it turns into fact and everyone starts using it to draw these conclusions when realistically the numbers aren't really good for anything, not even just for a "general idea". And that is regardless of the results...underrated, overrated....doesn't matter.

[tantric sounds 8]

Wouldn't it be better to educate the people instead of continuing on with saying the test is flawed. Seems like a better use of your time. Here we are once again bickering about the test that was given instead of using our time to move the subject forward instead of sideways. Makes more sense.

[///M5 2,833]

Wouldn't it be better to educate the people instead of continuing on with saying the test is flawed. Seems like a better use of your time. Here we are once again bickering about the test that was given instead of using our time to move the subject forward instead of sideways. Makes more sense.

And this is exactly why I called you out before.

Your question was answered, over and over and over. The accuracy of that test may be so bad that it isn't even a generalization of what power was made. We aren't nitpicking on 10w here or there but HUGE percentages in the actual value reported.

If you really don't rudimentary understand testing or measuring you have no business deciding jack shit about anything that is ever engineered for audio reproduction.

Please go calculate the uncertainty of each and every part of the measurement chain and stack them up. You'll shit.

[KyleBrown 121]

Wouldn't it be better to educate the people instead of continuing on with saying the test is flawed. Seems like a better use of your time. Here we are once again bickering about the test that was given instead of using our time to move the subject forward instead of sideways. Makes more sense.

 

 

Look man, there's no way possible for any of us on here to do any sort of real testing on an amplifier. Testing an amp with a resistor bank still isn't even good for a general idea. These tests are %100 worthless. 

[tantric sounds 8]

Ok great now I've asked several questions that don't exist and the thread is still going sideways instead of forward. I've been called out but only made statements and proved where my can't read nor comprehend what's been written and called out his manhood that never got answered. Then try to make a mends to get to move forward on the tread to still be in the same spot. Wow...lol.... oh well good luck guys Im Out

Edited January 6, 2014 by tantric sounds

[///M5 2,833]

Wouldn't it be better to educate the people instead of continuing on with saying the test is flawed. Seems like a better use of your time. Here we are once again bickering about the test that was given instead of using our time to move the subject forward instead of sideways. Makes more sense.

 

 

Look man, there's no way possible for any of us on here to do any sort of real testing on an amplifier. Testing an amp with a resistor bank still isn't even good for a general idea. These tests are 0 worthless.

Sad that your sarcastic statement is the most accurate thing you've posted in the thread.

Ok great now I've asked several questions that don't exist and the thread is still going sideways instead of forward. I've been called out but only made statements and proved where my can't read nor comprehend what's been written and called out his manhood that never got answered. Then try to make a mends to get to move forward on the tread to still be in the same spot. Wow...lol.... oh well good luck guys Im Out

Trying to make amends would be to actually do what was discussed and think about the test. Backpedaling is not doing that. Probably better you quit if you are too stubborn to actually think. Good luck running a business that way.

[Tenacious 32]

Wouldn't it be better to educate the people instead of continuing on with saying the test is flawed. Seems like a better use of your time. Here we are once again bickering about the test that was given instead of using our time to move the subject forward instead of sideways. Makes more sense.

Look man, there's no way possible for any of us on here to do any sort of real testing on an amplifier. Testing an amp with a resistor bank still isn't even good for a general idea. These tests are %100 worthless.

These various inaccurate tests don't help win world finals or anything

lol

If you guys need me, I'll be busy building loud things. It's fun, you all should try it some time.

[tantric sounds 8]

Wouldn't it be better to educate the people instead of continuing on with saying the test is flawed. Seems like a better use of your time. Here we are once again bickering about the test that was given instead of using our time to move the subject forward instead of sideways. Makes more sense.

  Look man, there's no way possible for any of us on here to do any sort of real testing on an amplifier. Testing an amp with a resistor bank still isn't even good for a general idea. These tests are 0 worthless.

Sad that your sarcastic statement is the most accurate thing you've posted in the thread.

Ok great now I've asked several questions that don't exist and the thread is still going sideways instead of forward. I've been called out but only made statements and proved where my can't read nor comprehend what's been written and called out his manhood that never got answered. Then try to make a mends to get to move forward on the tread to still be in the same spot. Wow...lol.... oh well good luck guys Im Out

Trying to make amends would be to actually do what was discussed and think about the test. Backpedaling is not doing that. Probably better you quit if you are too stubborn to actually think. Good luck running a business that way.

I don't need to backpedal or think about the testing as I have said several times and obviously you're not intelligent enough to understand what I posted. I guess to come on here and explain to you again that I don't support the testing and or results again is futile as its obvious you can't comprehend it the many times I have done it already. But I could always bring the chalkboard in here and treat you like a grade school child and put it in a larger format and break the words down for you but doubtful you would understand it then. You aren't man enough to admit when you do something wrong even when you get caught and called out publicly so there again your character remains at the bottom of the barrel. Good luck with your ventures forward and have a good life. I'll continue on in this industry as I have for the past 26 years and making accomplishments as something that no one has seen from you...

[///M5 2,833]

You are really good at summarizing your own faults and trying to apply them elsewhere. Good luck with that in life, lol.

[smashedz28 110]

Wouldn't it be better to educate the people instead of continuing on with saying the test is flawed. Seems like a better use of your time. Here we are once again bickering about the test that was given instead of using our time to move the subject forward instead of sideways. Makes more sense.

Look man, there's no way possible for any of us on here to do any sort of real testing on an amplifier. Testing an amp with a resistor bank still isn't even good for a general idea. These tests are 0 worthless.

Sad that your sarcastic statement is the most accurate thing you've posted in the thread.

Ok great now I've asked several questions that don't exist and the thread is still going sideways instead of forward. I've been called out but only made statements and proved where my can't read nor comprehend what's been written and called out his manhood that never got answered. Then try to make a mends to get to move forward on the tread to still be in the same spot. Wow...lol.... oh well good luck guys Im Out

Trying to make amends would be to actually do what was discussed and think about the test. Backpedaling is not doing that. Probably better you quit if you are too stubborn to actually think. Good luck running a business that way.

I don't need to backpedal or think about the testing as I have said several times and obviously you're not intelligent enough to understand what I posted. I guess to come on here and explain to you again that I don't support the testing and or results again is futile as its obvious you can't comprehend it the many times I have done it already. But I could always bring the chalkboard in here and treat you like a grade school child and put it in a larger format and break the words down for you but doubtful you would understand it then. <b>You aren't man enough to admit when you do something wrong even when you get caught and called out publicly so there again your character remains at the bottom of the barrel. <\b>Good luck with your ventures forward and have a good life. I'll continue on in this industry as I have for the past 26 years and making accomplishments as something that no one has seen from you...

What is he wrong about? Edited January 6, 2014 by smashedz28

[Impious 1,476]

These various inaccurate tests don't help win world finals or anything.

Naive and ignorant statement to assume that's a significant metric. Plenty of people with really stupid ideas and questionable knowledge do well in competitions, both SPL and SQ.

But just think of how much louder you could be if you actually understood science and testing.......

[swift 501]

I'm glad I dont give a shit about any of this, makes for a much better read. lol

[Tenacious 32]

These various inaccurate tests don't help win world finals or anything.

Naive and ignorant statement to assume that's a significant metric. Plenty of people with really stupid ideas and questionable knowledge do well in competitions, both SPL and SQ.

But just think of how much louder you could be if you actually understood science and testing.......

That's always debatable; there's no replacement for trial and error. Knowledge always help, but plenty of "smart" people do terrible in competition.

[lithium 358]

 

These various inaccurate tests don't help win world finals or anything.

Naive and ignorant statement to assume that's a significant metric. Plenty of people with really stupid ideas and questionable knowledge do well in competitions, both SPL and SQ.

But just think of how much louder you could be if you actually understood science and testing.......

That's always debatable; there's no replacement for trial and error. Knowledge always help, but plenty of "smart" people do terrible in competition.

troll status achieved bro. well done. 

[Tenacious 32]

 

 

These various inaccurate tests don't help win world finals or anything.

Naive and ignorant statement to assume that's a significant metric. Plenty of people with really stupid ideas and questionable knowledge do well in competitions, both SPL and SQ.

But just think of how much louder you could be if you actually understood science and testing.......

That's always debatable; there's no replacement for trial and error. Knowledge always help, but plenty of "smart" people do terrible in competition.

troll status achieved bro. well done. 

I just talked with TommyK and he said that he doesn't even worry about the technical side of things... 

 

And I guarantee that he's louder than anyone posting their nonsense in this thread