mid bass needs to be upgraded looking for some advice.

[Briggiboy33 2]

i currently have a pair of polk db 6.5 components. the 6.5s dont go low enough, they are running on a power bass XAX2160FD 100rmsx2 @ 4ohms. i have  been thinking about using the tweeters and the xover and installing a pair of peerless 830946 woofers. im not sure where the xover is actually set. but would this work? or what would you guys reccomend? i have a 15" ssd on 1300rms in the back on my tundra access cab. these would go in the doors btw.

 

[caloriu 0]

have you properly sealed the doors and deaned?

[///M5 2,833]

Working on the installation is always step one.

Adding midbasses to a comp set is sort of backwards as well. Much better to rethink the whole front stage if that is necessary. The 6.5" Peerless isn't nearly the beast the 8 is either.

To help we need way more detail.

[Briggiboy33 2]

so i should seal the doors? okay step one needs to be completed. i had that feeling. time to do my research on that. thanks guys

[caloriu 0]

so i should seal the doors? okay step one needs to be completed. i had that feeling. time to do my research on that. thanks guys

in order to get the most out of your speakers you need to properly seal the doors and use some sort of deadner. in some cases its near impossible to completely seal the door so just do the best u can .

[altoncustomtech 773]

You don't necessarily need to SEAL the doors, it can't truly be done anyway.  The best thing to do is to prevent the back wave from behind the speaker in the door from getting out and the most efficient way to do so is to block/absorb it.  It also helps keep the door workings uncovered/modified so it can still be worked on without ruining your deadening.

 

Put the CLD tiles on the door, all you need is 25% coverage on each panel.  When I say each I'm referring to the outside/exterior door panel and the inner/interior door panel the plastic hangs on.  That will help with unwanted resonances from the sheet metal.  The next step would be to build and mount a solid baffle for the speaker to mount to in the door.  Mounted directly to the sheet metal, or to that flimsy factory plastic baffle, just isn't the best way to mount the mid.  Losses in output, distortions or colorations of midrange frequencies, vibrations and rattles are problems associated with having a flimsy mounting surface.  How much effect it has varies from driver to driver and vehicle to vehicle but is and should be a minimum for any installation.  The next step would be to obtain and apply CCF (closed cell foam) to the door.  Don from SoundDeadenerShowdown prefers applying it to the door with velcro for easy removal and I agree with that myself so the door can be worked on later without tearing up the CCF.  CCF cushions all the points where rattles can/will happen.  Lastly obtaining and applying MLV (mass loaded vinyl) over the CCF in the same manner with the velcro will complete the deadening and be about the most effective deadening you can do.  The MLV absorbs/blocks the back wave, road/vehicle noises, and most all other sounds that aren't the music coming from the speakers inside.  

 

Reading up on SoundDeadenerShowdown.com will help you with your research.  After performing these steps, if your midbass is still lacking THEN we can help with changing drivers, but as I previously mentioned these should be the minimal steps taken for everyone's speaker installations to help ensure they're getting the most for their money.

 

I have completed all these steps except for the installation of the MLV in my Jimmy.  The midbass response from the modest components I have installed in it is fantastic and surprises most everyone who listens to it when I tell and show them there's no sub or any other speaker in the truck making the bass they're hearing and FEELING.  Not a bad feat for some 6.5" drivers IMO.

 

 

Here's some examples.

 

Here's the CLD tiles, right about 25%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's my CCF.  I stuck it directly to the door since I already had a large amount of RaamAudio's UOI peel n stick CCF on hand.  I covered all the holes with it but didn't cover where the window motor is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the baffle I built for my doors.  Three layers of 3/4" MDF with a flush mount for the mid.  They're bolted to the door with some foam behind them to help decouple the baffle from the door, seal it to the door, and allow wiggle room for getting the angle just right to go through the door card.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's what it looks like finished.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope that helps explain and show some of the processes for sound deadening and installation.

[///M5 2,833]

Forgot the most important step...the MLV

[altoncustomtech 773]

Forgot the most important step...the MLV

 

Nope, I mentioned it, I also mentioned that I still have to put it in mine.

 

You don't necessarily need to SEAL the doors, it can't truly be done anyway.  The best thing to do is to prevent the back wave from behind the speaker in the door from getting out and the most efficient way to do so is to block/absorb it.  It also helps keep the door workings uncovered/modified so it can still be worked on without ruining your deadening.

 

Put the CLD tiles on the door, all you need is 25% coverage on each panel.  When I say each I'm referring to the outside/exterior door panel and the inner/interior door panel the plastic hangs on.  That will help with unwanted resonances from the sheet metal.  The next step would be to build and mount a solid baffle for the speaker to mount to in the door.  Mounted directly to the sheet metal, or to that flimsy factory plastic baffle, just isn't the best way to mount the mid.  Losses in output, distortions or colorations of midrange frequencies, vibrations and rattles are problems associated with having a flimsy mounting surface.  How much effect it has varies from driver to driver and vehicle to vehicle but is and should be a minimum for any installation.  The next step would be to obtain and apply CCF (closed cell foam) to the door.  Don from SoundDeadenerShowdown prefers applying it to the door with velcro for easy removal and I agree with that myself so the door can be worked on later without tearing up the CCF.  CCF cushions all the points where rattles can/will happen.  Lastly obtaining and applying MLV (mass loaded vinyl) over the CCF in the same manner with the velcro will complete the deadening and be about the most effective deadening you can do.  The MLV absorbs/blocks the back wave, road/vehicle noises, and most all other sounds that aren't the music coming from the speakers inside.  

 

Reading up on SoundDeadenerShowdown.com will help you with your research.  After performing these steps, if your midbass is still lacking THEN we can help with changing drivers, but as I previously mentioned these should be the minimal steps taken for everyone's speaker installations to help ensure they're getting the most for their money.

 

I have completed all these steps except for the installation of the MLV in my Jimmy.  The midbass response from the modest components I have installed in it is fantastic and surprises most everyone who listens to it when I tell and show them there's no sub or any other speaker in the truck making the bass they're hearing and FEELING.  Not a bad feat for some 6.5" drivers IMO. 

[Briggiboy33 2]

wow that was great info there. i really appreciate it. so if i bought 13sqft of damplifier pro and used like a thin wood. not sure what type but like 1/4" or so and siliconed it to the door to seal the holes then place the bamplifier pro to the 25% on each door, would i get much better response from the mids? sorry i havent researched much about deadening anything, im 19 and just been all about the bass. just recently added the components and amp. so ive never had the rattles from the doors. but im thinking using like 1/4" wood to fill the holes. then cdl on the sheet metal. deadener is quite expensive and seems to be the last thing i thought about. but i really appreciate the pictures. 

[///M5 2,833]

Forgot the most important step...the MLV

 

Nope, I mentioned it, I also mentioned that I still have to put it in mine.

 

You don't necessarily need to SEAL the doors, it can't truly be done anyway.  The best thing to do is to prevent the back wave from behind the speaker in the door from getting out and the most efficient way to do so is to block/absorb it.  It also helps keep the door workings uncovered/modified so it can still be worked on without ruining your deadening.

 

Put the CLD tiles on the door, all you need is 25% coverage on each panel.  When I say each I'm referring to the outside/exterior door panel and the inner/interior door panel the plastic hangs on.  That will help with unwanted resonances from the sheet metal.  The next step would be to build and mount a solid baffle for the speaker to mount to in the door.  Mounted directly to the sheet metal, or to that flimsy factory plastic baffle, just isn't the best way to mount the mid.  Losses in output, distortions or colorations of midrange frequencies, vibrations and rattles are problems associated with having a flimsy mounting surface.  How much effect it has varies from driver to driver and vehicle to vehicle but is and should be a minimum for any installation.  The next step would be to obtain and apply CCF (closed cell foam) to the door.  Don from SoundDeadenerShowdown prefers applying it to the door with velcro for easy removal and I agree with that myself so the door can be worked on later without tearing up the CCF.  CCF cushions all the points where rattles can/will happen.  Lastly obtaining and applying MLV (mass loaded vinyl) over the CCF in the same manner with the velcro will complete the deadening and be about the most effective deadening you can do.  The MLV absorbs/blocks the back wave, road/vehicle noises, and most all other sounds that aren't the music coming from the speakers inside.  

 

Reading up on SoundDeadenerShowdown.com will help you with your research.  After performing these steps, if your midbass is still lacking THEN we can help with changing drivers, but as I previously mentioned these should be the minimal steps taken for everyone's speaker installations to help ensure they're getting the most for their money.

 

I have completed all these steps except for the installation of the MLV in my Jimmy.  The midbass response from the modest components I have installed in it is fantastic and surprises most everyone who listens to it when I tell and show them there's no sub or any other speaker in the truck making the bass they're hearing and FEELING.  Not a bad feat for some 6.5" drivers IMO. 

Consider it reinforcement then

<-- didn't read, just looked at the pictures and comments on the pics

[crackinhedz 51]

Another thought (sound dampening is a must) what are your headunit options for EQ? If you only have high, mid, bass option then not much you can do as far as eq goes, but if you have more bands (frequency) to work with this could help also.

What head unit do you have?

[Briggiboy33 2]

i have the clarion cx501. i honestly dont know what a few of the features do... there are settings for different letters. 

[Briggiboy33 2]

it does have a high pass and a low pass on it that i do use.

[altoncustomtech 773]

wow that was great info there. i really appreciate it. so if i bought 13sqft of damplifier pro and used like a thin wood. not sure what type but like 1/4" or so and siliconed it to the door to seal the holes then place the bamplifier pro to the 25% on each door, would i get much better response from the mids? sorry i havent researched much about deadening anything, im 19 and just been all about the bass. just recently added the components and amp. so ive never had the rattles from the doors. but im thinking using like 1/4" wood to fill the holes. then cdl on the sheet metal. deadener is quite expensive and seems to be the last thing i thought about. but i really appreciate the pictures. 

 

It's not the way I would recommend doing it, but it would be better than nothing.  Using the CLD, CCF and MLV together is the absolute best way to go about it, though it is a little more expensive.  I've done my doors in stages though, while I already had the CCF from when I did the build in my van I put the CLD in when I was able to get it.  I bought the MLV for it finally back in March.  There's nothing wrong in doing the steps when you can and the results will be worth the wait and money.

[Briggiboy33 2]

alright that sounds good. i mean if i stuck some of that matress topper in the door pannels after i tried to seal the doors with like 1/4" wood with the CLD tiles would that help also? my plan seems to be to get the CLD first correct? and the 1/4" wood to seal the holes seems like it would help alot also. i have the matress topper that i dont use.. lol it might be pointless. but just until i can afford the actual thing. right now i just want the speakers to not distort when i play songs like "in for the kill" or "PA nights". pretty soon im planning to make a much larger box for my 15" ssd and get much more out of my sub. as it is, the vocals barely can keep up. but i am more just looking for better quality from them.

[altoncustomtech 773]

Don't put the foam pad in the doors.  It's not waterproof so it will soak up the water that runs down into the door during a rain and mold and cause the inside of the door to rust much faster, not good.  In theory it will work, but not a good idea in a car door, or the general environment a car is subjected to.  Using the 1/4" plywood until you get the CCF and MLV isn't a bad idea but don't count on it as the permanent fix.  Don't forget the importance of building at least some sort of baffle to mount the speaker in.  If you're getting distortion from the speakers on certain songs you should raise your HPF for them up until they stop distorting.  You'll loose some midbass response but I think you'd much rather do that than have to replace the speakers.  Once you get the installation done properly you can revisit and experiment with a lower HPF setting to get your midbass back.

[caloriu 0]

im not expert on doors but had great success with just sealing the big opening with sheet metal and using a qulaity deaner on top and my midbass was amazing . it is certainly not best way but worked for me and satisfied my need with the budget i had . the point is the better the job preaping the door the better the overall outcome

[Briggiboy33 2]

yeah i didnt think about the rain and stuff. good looks on that. but yeah ill try to seal the doors up and get some CLD on there. 

[crackinhedz 51]

Looking at yOur Clarion features, I would set high and low pass to 90... You could try 60 and see which sounds better to you.

Also you could try setting the "bass" setting to 100hz or 200hz and increase it some...see if that helps any. There is an option for "q factor" but im not very knowledgable on the benefits of this.

[Briggiboy33 2]

i believe they are set to 90. the 60 was too low. i have messed with these a little bit since ive had it. i have scrolled through the settings, and i couldnt tell the difference with the bass setting, or the mid or high setting. but i can try it again next time im in there. thank you for the input.

[pyfocal 0]

The Polk crossover is probably in the 3000hz to 4000hz range for the woofer low pass . The peerless SLS's are only good up to about 500hz-you would have a big hole. I use them for midbass from 80hz to 350hz and the are pretty good for this. I've tried them higher but they just don't work. Plus the crossover is designed for the Polk woofers.