NSPL TRUCK/SUV1801-3600 World Record. 152.1Db@49 Hz, 3157 WATTS OF CLA

[Derrick824 4]

Let's say 2 people were tryin to be in this 1800-3600w class.

the first guy has 2 Fi SSDs ran off of 2 sundown 3500s strapped @2ohm.

the 2nd guy has 4 Fi SSDs ran off of 2 sundown 3500s strapped @2ohm

Assuming they had the same electrical and impedance curve, the 1st guy with the 2 SSDs will clamp WAY more power out than the first guy.

Why?

Because 2 ssds will go into insane power compression which will cause a massive increase in impedance.

2 SSDs will not see any "insane" power compression with only 1800w each. If any competitor did decide to run their subs past their efficient limits then that's their own fault.

[shizzzon 461]

you misread...

IT's 2 SSDs on 2 3500Ds.. that's 3500w per sub, not 1800w.

Also, in order for people like us to get average readings for output power just using a multitude of dmms and ammeters, i have to hold constant for around 5sec minimum for numbers to stay constant. I've seen some pretty massive fluctuations before, hence why i never use peak hold...

Whenever i get my setup built, if i remember, i'll post up some of my numbers.

[Spencerk 4]

Not that I WOULD EVER condone cheating but.....through pulse width modulation you can ( depending on the frequency) make those clamp on current meters read any number you want......

Edited April 21, 2011 by 144dbFiBl15

[Derrick824 4]

you misread...

IT's 2 SSDs on 2 3500Ds.. that's 3500w per sub, not 1800w.

Also, in order for people like us to get average readings for output power just using a multitude of dmms and ammeters, i have to hold constant for around 5sec minimum for numbers to stay constant. I've seen some pretty massive fluctuations before, hence why i never use peak hold...

Whenever i get my setup built, if i remember, i'll post up some of my numbers.

I didn't misread anything. You said "Let's say 2 people were tryin to be in this 1800-3600w class." That means they can only use a maximum 3600w which would be 1800w each for 2 subs. How many and/or size of the amplifiers is irrelevant.

[ssh 924]

Not that I WOULD EVER condone cheating but.....through pulse width modulation you can ( depending on the frequency) make those clamp on current meters read any number you want......

Just another reason the whole thing is sorta a joke, too many variables...

[shizzzon 461]

if u are going by actual power, then i would still say 1800w max per sub of this example is still extremely excessive and power compression will still set in.

Who else would know other than either Fi or someone who can provide actual pressure readings with power..

PC is pointless, but my point still stands. I'll get numbers and show what really happens in a couple months from now.

[Derrick824 4]

Also, in order for people like us to get average readings for output power just using a multitude of dmms and ammeters, i have to hold constant for around 5sec minimum for numbers to stay constant. I've seen some pretty massive fluctuations before, hence why i never use peak hold...

This isn't about average readings. SPL is done on peak hold. That peak spl is a result of peak power produced by the amplifiers. If you're seeing "massive" fluctuations in your voltage and current readings from the amplifier's output then you have problems elsewhere is your setup. My 1st guess would be insufficient electrical to sustain constant power.

[Derrick824 4]

Not that I WOULD EVER condone cheating but.....through pulse width modulation you can ( depending on the frequency) make those clamp on current meters read any number you want......

Cheating can be done in any organization.

[Derrick824 4]

if u are going by actual power, then i would still say 1800w max per sub of this example is still extremely excessive and power compression will still set in.

Then you should drop down a power class to keep your subs within their range of maximum efficiency. This is spl and you should build appropriately for the class you wish to compete. If you choose to overdrive your subs that's your own fault. Don't blame the rules for your failure.

[Derrick824 4]

Just another reason the whole thing is sorta a joke, too many variables...

Please elaborate as to how many variables there are. It's really simple how everything works. Ya'll just seem to have a gross misunderstanding of it.

[shizzzon 461]

Not that I WOULD EVER condone cheating but.....through pulse width modulation you can ( depending on the frequency) make those clamp on current meters read any number you want......

Cheating can be done in any organization.

A response like that makes me feel leary about how people's conscious really is when competing...

And what are you talking about?

I never said anything about complaining about rules?

What rules are u even talking about, not that i even care...

You take things too seriously for some reason.

An example is laid out and you think i'm complaining about a setup that i supposedly own, lmao...

Sorry.. but u are WAY misunderstanding now..

And like i said now for what.. the 3rd time?

Just wait til i post up my own numbers and prove what is happening.

You may want to absorb some knowledge from this forum rather than going against it.

measurements are done for SPL which measures peak from amps...

If you knew anything about how pressure sensors measure pressure.. here is a secret-

These sensors do not read in split second peaks !!!!! Yep that's right... They do not.

They take multiple samples per second and average them together in realtime and give you your score.

1.5-2 full seconds is ideal to get your best score if time is a concern( like running in a fused class)

So, peak readings are.. pointless.

And why are my readings fluctuating?

hmm., obviously it's not because of my electrical?

Why must you assume i'm measuring my own setup?

Assumptions almost always lead to the wrong answer and in your case, it did.

ANY setup i have ever measured is like this.. it's common sense or at least it is for me since it's as common as fillin up your tank when it's low on gas.

We don't live in a theory based world, real world has variables.

Now, i do not know why you tried to change this topic over to try and virtually attack examples with false assumptions but i am trying to help you all understand that you are actually putting out less power which would be a good thing i would have thought.. Now it's done been blown out of proportion which makes no sense to me...

[Derrick824 4]

Not that I WOULD EVER condone cheating but.....through pulse width modulation you can ( depending on the frequency) make those clamp on current meters read any number you want......

Cheating can be done in any organization.

I believe you quoted the wrong thing.

A response like that makes me feel leary about how people's conscious really is when competing...

And what are you talking about?

I never said anything about complaining about rules?

What rules are u even talking about, not that i even care...

So far everything you've been saying has been complaining about the rules of competition for these orgs that clamp power using terms like "that is UNFAIR". If you don't care about these rules or competitions then why are you in here ranting about them?

You take things too seriously for some reason.

An example is laid out and you think i'm complaining about a setup that i supposedly own, lmao...

Sorry.. but u are WAY misunderstanding now..

I haven't misunderstood anything. You're examples were a bunch of nonsense. You didn't even understand that you can't use more than 3600w in a 3600w class. You're talking in circles and contradicting yourself. I'm simply correcting your misinformation.

And like i said now for what.. the 3rd time?

Just wait til i post up my own numbers and prove what is happening.

You may want to absorb some knowledge from this forum rather than going against it.

I don't need to wait for your testing cause I've already done it. You should do your own personal testing 1st before jumping online and acting like you know what you're talking about cause you obviously don't.

There is nothing here for me to absorb. Certainly not going to learn anything from a bunch of online e-know-it-alls who haven't actually done it for themselves. You've made the perfect example here of why so many real competitors don't get on these forums. Cause we hate it when silly e-know-it-all noobs who've never actually done it try to argue with us about stuff they have no clue about.

measurements are done for SPL which measures peak from amps...

If you knew anything about how pressure sensors measure pressure.. here is a secret-

These sensors do not read in split second peaks !!!!! Yep that's right... They do not.

They take multiple samples per second and average them together in realtime and give you your score.

1.5-2 full seconds is ideal to get your best score if time is a concern( like running in a fused class)

So, peak readings are.. pointless.

Now you're putting words in my mouth and trying to make it more complicated than it is. Nobody said anything about "split second peaks". I'm very aware of how the meters work. Going into any more detail of how the spl software takes it's measurements is irrelevant. In competition it's a PEAK spl score to match the PEAK clamped power.

And why are my readings fluctuating?

hmm., obviously it's not because of my electrical?

Why must you assume i'm measuring my own setup?

I don't know exactly why your measurements are fluctuating but, as I said, if they are "massive" fluctuations (as you put it) then something is wrong with what you're doing. All I can do is guess and I did with the most likely cause of "massive" fluctuations which is poor electrical.

Assumptions almost always lead to the wrong answer and in your case, it did.

So then what is the issue as to why you're incorrectly seeing these "massive" fluctuations?

ANY setup i have ever measured is like this.. it's common sense or at least it is for me since it's as common as fillin up your tank when it's low on gas.

We don't live in a theory based world, real world has variables.

Now, i do not know why you tried to change this topic over to try and virtually attack examples with false assumptions but i am trying to help you all understand that you are actually putting out less power which would be a good thing i would have thought.. Now it's done been blown out of proportion which makes no sense to me...

The topic is about Danny setting a record in his class. You felt the need to come in here and go on & on about how these competitions are all wrong. You changed the topic, not me. I'm simply correcting all the misinformation you're putting out there.

[Derrick824 4]

I'm not one for the useless bickering nonsense. Lets keep this constructive. Please tell us more details about your experience with "insane power compression" and it's effect on your spl/watt. More importantly tell us why a yourself as a competitor would inefficiently overdrive your subs beyond their optimal performance per watt in a class that solely based on spl/watt? And what kind of differences have you seen with the "massive fluctuations" when testing real time vs peak hold?

[MalibuOn22s 37]

curious does it matter how many subs for specific records on just total power you are throwing at them?

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Back on topic ... Congrats OP very nice score! Sundown FTMFW!

[Derrick824 4]

curious does it matter how many subs for specific records on just total power you are throwing at them?

In NSPL, clamped power classes do not have any subwoofer limitations.

[MalibuOn22s 37]

curious does it matter how many subs for specific records on just total power you are throwing at them?

In NSPL, clamped power classes do not have any subwoofer limitations.

Ohhh ok. Any links to what the records are for everything?

[Derrick824 4]

Current NSPL records for the 2011 season can be found here.

http://audioforum.termpro.com/topic/28/1393.html

[MalibuOn22s 37]

Current NSPL records for the 2011 season can be found here.

http://audioforum.termpro.com/topic/28/1393.html

thanks boss I appreciate it. When is the next FL show you will be making it to?

EDIT:Whats the difference between wall and wall hardcore?

Edited April 21, 2011 by MalibuOn22s

[Sencheezy 689]

I am a noob when it comes to competing, so from my/our POV, thanks for clearing everything up, I think it was a good arguement actually. a lot of good points were actually made.

[Kickin Kia 1]

Current NSPL records for the 2011 season can be found here.

http://audioforum.termpro.com/topic/28/1393.html

thanks boss I appreciate it. When is the next FL show you will be making it to?

EDIT:Whats the difference between wall and wall hardcore?

If anyone does a wall class comp, there vehicle is totally sealed up when they do their run. Wall Hardcore, they can have a window down, a door open, someone fanning a door.....etc.

[Kickin Kia 1]

Wow! This is crazy! But seriously, Derrick is very knowledgeable about testing and tuning. He and the rest of Team Nemesis and Master Yoda, Ray Smith have helped me to get me where I am now. There has been hours and hours of work on my KIA. Not to mention a lot of money has been invested, not necessarily on equipment, but Sound deadener all over the truck, the roof has been reinforced because all the braces had cracked welds. Quite a few boxes have been in and out of The KIA. I probably have four or five at Derrick's shop. Repairs to the back door. Electrical repaired. Electrical upgrades. This is a very addictive sport.

[Sencheezy 689]

Wow! This is crazy! But seriously, Derrick is very knowledgeable about testing and tuning. He and the rest of Team Nemesis and Master Yoda, Ray Smith have helped me to get me where I am now. There has been hours and hours of work on my KIA. Not to mention a lot of money has been invested, not necessarily on equipment, but Sound deadener all over the truck, the roof has been reinforced because all the braces had cracked welds. Quite a few boxes have been in and out of The KIA. I probably have four or five at Derrick's shop. Repairs to the back door. Electrical repaired. Electrical upgrades. This is a very addictive sport.

Would you mind sharing? Reason asking is because of all of the trial and error you have already been through, and has turned out extremely well for you. Not that I just want to jump to first place my first time, kuz it won't happen. But I believe if you can learn from other ppl mistakes, than there is no reason to make your own. So, what are some helpful tips you could give to somebody that is new. Like, did you deaden your entire vehicle, what parts of the vehicle were the most important, what box designs worked out the best, how did you reinforce the roof, etc etc. Just in general, what are some tips that would help anybody??

[Shogen 325]

Nice score dude! any record is worth commending!

[Gary F. 3]

Congrats Danny!!! I like being an e-knowitall cuz I can hit the lows fo sho!!! hahahahahahaha