Fi Q w/ BP vs AA Havoc

[nick_19 1]

Just made a topic so you don't have to scroll through pages to find it...

Ok first things first. The test was done in my car with my equipment (in signature).

The box is 4.5 cubic feet net tuned to 32 hz with 57.25 in^2 of port area.

Subs: 15" Havoc and 15" Q with BP option (both have embedded tinsels)

Yummy pics:

Here are TermLab results...

Outlaw style (at the kick, both windows open)

Q:

Havoc:

Legal (sealed up at the dash)

Q:

Havoc:

Listening experience:

To tell you the truth, unless you are a freaking machine, I doubt you would be able to tell the difference between these two drivers under the exact same circumstances. Now everything I am saying is dealing with ported enclosures; I have done no testing nor have I heard either sub sealed. I listened to everything from Nothing Left by As I Lay Dying with some sick kickdrum bass to the lows of Put On by Young Jeezy and almost no difference could be heard. The primary difference between the two is volume. You might not be able to hear much of a difference, but you can feel it. If you compare my door moving in 10 G's by Killer Mike in the two vids, it moved WAY more with the Havoc than with the Q. Definitely noticeable. The Havoc itself also seemed to move more, but that might have just been an impression. The Havoc also peaked out a little bit lower. It might be hard to see in the photos, but the Havoc got the loudest on the 33 and 32 hz tones while it was about 34 for the Q. Odd considering the Fs of the Havoc is a little bit higher. For sound quality and sealed setups, I'm sure there is a difference that would make a difference, but for the daily pounder, I'd say the Havoc is the better choice if you can get your hands on it, but the Q will do everything you want it to and more.

Vids:

Guess Who's Back by Mike Jones

Q:

Havoc:

10 G's by Killer Mike

Q:

Havoc:

My buddy's top score of the day. He hit this outlaw style with Prime Minister by Young Jeezy.

(He peaks at about 43 hz or so)

Fi Q 15 w/ BP on about 1000 wrms in 4.0 cubic feet tuned to 30 hz in a Chevy Colorado

Edited January 9, 2009 by nick_19

[nem 2,019]

Nice results on two good subwoofers.

[ABXX49 20]

There you have it! Finally an answer to all the questions. Let's get this thing stickied!

[95Honda 486]

When you use the same ported box for 2 different drivers, all objectivity is out the window....

[nick_19 1]

When you use the same ported box for 2 different drivers, all objectivity is out the window....

What do you suggest to improve the accuracy and credibility of the test? What you stated was the problem I foresaw being brought up, but I merely wanted to provide some sort of tangible result that people could see. I mean somebody saying "things move around more with the Havoc" just doesn't cut it... At least There is some sort of factual evidence to give people something to compare... I see what you are saying and honestly, I agree...

[BKOLFO4 29]

I know what 95Honda is saying about the same box, but since both drivers are in enclosures that fall within the manufacturer's spec, it seems like a fun comparision.

Brian

[nick_19 1]

edit:

Post #420

Edited January 9, 2009 by nick_19

[nick_19 1]

What I was going to say before my post count so rudely interrupted.

Nathan: feel free to comment on your feelings and stuff bout the experiment. What you heard counts just as much as me.

[BILTD 60]

Nice test. The results can swing either way to depending on the car to.

The Q will have a higher Fs than the original T/S suggest since theres an extra spider with the BP upgrade, so thats going to reflect on the peak note a little. A stock Q is about the same if not peakier lower than the Havoc. For this test It would have been real good to have a std Q driver.

I've tested this side by side. Sonically found pretty much the same as you. However an abused test, the Q held up a little better (with BP) mechincally.

[95Honda 486]

It is real easy to make it objective...

You need to put both drivers in the exact same alignment, not enclosure....

Sometimes we forget that there aren't two drivers on the planet that are completely optimized for the same exact enclosure. In fact, even identical drivers (same model from same company) will have variations in T/S parameters that would require slight adjustments to achieve identical responses. I have witnessed this first hand when optimizing crossover networks and having to tailor each speaker independantly to achieve identical measured response, and this is with identical drivers....

That would mean identical Qtc of sealed boxes and identical Q and alignment type of a vented box. When you do this, neither box will be the same size, have the same vent dimesions/proportions or the same tuning.

It is commendable to take the time like you have, but the results would mean so, so much more if you placed the drivers in identical alignments.....

[wof131s 10]

If both woofers basic compare hand and hand with each other, then why the extra flexing with the AA Havoc woofer? What is it that makes this woofer flex and "move stuff around" so much more than the fi Q woofer? I am a big fan of both woofers (especially the Fi), but dont understand the difference in each woofer's response to the same power. Thanks

[nick_19 1]

I have no clue. When Scott gets back from CES I hope that he posts a response to what I did and HOPEFULLY results of the tests he did comparing the two woofers. I want to see how his test results compare to what I found. And as to why it moves things around so much more, I have no clue. The Q is slightly more efficient, but not by very much. The only thing I can think of that would affect things moving would be the resonance frequency of the two drivers...

[RobClay 20]

Interesting results.

Nice comparison and pics of the woofers

[Fi Car Audio 64]

Thanks for the tests and evaluation.

Seems to hold about true in most applications. The Q with BP is a little more robust of a driver (both mechanically and thermally) with a slight SQ deficit vs the Havoc. Standard Q vs Havoc is closer SQ wise, with the Havoc having the slightest edge thermally vs the stock Q. Not quite as worried about not being the exact same alignment as they do fall fairly close alignment wise and well within our recommendations. To me it is a little more of a real world test than going with optimally matched alignments... doing this test with some drivers results in enclosures much larger than normally seen in autosound environments... which also yields an unfair advantage in things (fact of the matter that enclosure size matters in cramped cars).

Again, thanks for the time and effort to do this

Scott

[Nathan09 0]

I'm the owner of the FiQ that was being used in the comparison...For an ideal test yes the Q would need to be in its ideal box. We were not able to do that due to the size of my box(4cf3 @30hz) for my Colorado. As nick_19 stated it was just a test to give people somewhat of a comparison, anythings better than nothing. Maybe sometime in the future we can do a another test with a box ideal for the q that will fit in the trunk , but for now this will have to do. Either way it goes the Q or the havoc are great subs especially if u love the low notes in the 25-30hz range....

[nick_19 1]

Agreed completely. I still wanna try a sealed box sometime as well...

[Nathan09 0]

Ya hopefully in the near future, would be interesting that's for sure.